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Old November 2, 2008, 07:53 PM   #1
NPS,LE
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Question about getting smart regarding shot shells

I’m embarrassed to even bring this up, but is there some simple-minded web site that will instruct me in the complicated various nomenclature around shot shells. I used to know this stuff ( I think), but would not regret a simple update. I own (and once qualified) on an 870.
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Old November 2, 2008, 08:31 PM   #2
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Anything you want to know can be found here. Ask your questions and people will give you more answers than you probably want.
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Old November 2, 2008, 09:57 PM   #3
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Nps,le

Welcome NPS,LE,

To get started yo can go to gunnersden.com, a simple and straightforward encyclopedia of shotgunning where you can learn terms and ideas to bring back to our forum for discussion. check out Sgotgun Shot & choke Guide under shotgun shooting, it is the last topic. Here is the address;

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotguns.html

You can always use our libary and search features to get info and read previous discussions.

If you have questions that you don't want to go public with feel free to PM me. I am a Tactcool kind of guy, you will find bigjim, zippy13 big time skeet and trap guys, hogdogs and rantinredneck are good old hunting dogs. I have left a bunch out, but in general I think the best shotgun forum going is right here.
Good Luck & be safe
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Old November 3, 2008, 01:26 PM   #4
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The Remington site - will give you a lot of general info on their shotshells.

http://www.remington.com/
Go to ammunition, shotshells - and then as you click on each load they offer - they will give you a lot of data on ounces of shot, velociy, what they recommend the shell for ....

I didn't assume you were interested in reloading - but if you are - then check out the MEC site. They have manuals, with some good photos, etc ( the 9000 GN or 9000HN are the machines I would recommend ).
http://www.mecreloaders.com/

But by all means, just ask whatever is on your mind / or PM myself or Bob like he suggested. There is a lot of stuff I don't know - but that's why the site is fun too.
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Old November 4, 2008, 07:08 PM   #5
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you can't go wrong listening to...

Scattergun Bob and that Big Jim fellow!
Scattergun Bob is regarded as Big Medicine by me so listen and take notes, and yes, there will be a pop quiz later!
To quote Forest Gump, "and that's all I have to say about THAT".
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Old November 4, 2008, 07:29 PM   #6
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ScattergunBob is smarter than I am / but I'm better looking ...in a buffalo sort of way ...
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Old November 4, 2008, 07:45 PM   #7
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Indeed Jim, Bob, and Dave McC can steer you toward the information you seek.
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Old November 4, 2008, 09:04 PM   #8
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I'm hoping NPS,LE will come up with a shot shell question, from far out in left field, so I can learn something new and interesting from the Wizards of Washington.
Quote:
I'm better looking ...in a buffalo sort of way ...
ROFLMAO
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Old November 4, 2008, 11:10 PM   #9
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Nps,le

I can not believe that I did not give credit to Dave McCracken, How Stupid Of Me. NPS,LE just so you know, if Dave says it, I take it to the bank. In my humble thoughts he is the true expert here. I am not an expert and have stated so many times, I have learned much from great discussions on the forum. I honored to be part of this group.

Good Luck & Be safe
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Last edited by Scattergun Bob; November 5, 2008 at 01:36 AM.
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Old November 5, 2008, 12:32 AM   #10
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Per your request

Shotshell manufactuering A small summary of the making of a shotshell provided by the Dept. of Justice.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/trainin...ir_m05_t11.htm


Some basic info on shot
http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

Another shotshell reloader that you might look at if you are considering reloading.
http://www.reloaders.com/catalog/pro...products_id=34

If you have any questions on shotshells the guys at this number have helped me developing loads for different situations that I have ran into.
I do not have an 800 number for them and you can only reach them from Monday thru Thursday. I would tell them your in LE and have some questions.
913-362-9455
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Old November 5, 2008, 12:45 AM   #11
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Heres a question

I am always on the lookout for a low to medium brass 2 3/4 plastic hull with the greatest case capacity. Any specific suggestions.
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Old November 5, 2008, 01:35 AM   #12
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olddrum1

That's one for BigJim, PM him. I think he lives in the reloading room. Me I have a large supply of traded in Buck & Ball and raid the gun show to resupply field loads.

Great sites!

Good Luck & Be Safe
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Last edited by Scattergun Bob; November 5, 2008 at 01:44 AM.
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Old November 5, 2008, 12:55 PM   #13
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Aw comeon guys, I can't maintain this petite figure without going upstairs to the kitchen once in a while ... I only keep 4 or 5 cases of reloaded shells for 12ga, and 4 or 5 cases of 20ga, and .....28ga and .... .410 ( my shotshell loaders only do 20 - 25 boxes an hour Bob, and its tiring operating that foot pedal on those hydraulic machines ....). But I'm not just a shotshell guy, I'm reading a great book on 1911's right now - and I just reread the secton on shooting revolvers in Brian Enos's book on Practical Shooting, Beyond the Fundamentals .... ( I know you memorized both of those books, ....but some of us need a refresher....).

Olddrum1 ....
2 3/4 inch plastic shells - everything I load is low brass - but Remington STS or Rem Nitro hulls are just a few thousandths longer than WIN AA's. Both Rem STS and Win AA's have loads for 1 1/2 oz - using Hodgdon Longshot - and using a special Win or Rem wads. I don't personally load anything more than 1 1/8 oz loads ( even for hunting birds ). There are 1 1/8 oz loads in the books using Rem STS hulls with velocities anywhere from 1090 fps - all the way up to 1585 fps using Hodgdon Longshot....but I keep most everything I load around 1225 fps / a few up around 1300 fps.

Olddrum1 - what are you trying to do with a shell - if you give me some idea of what you intend to use it for, maybe I can give you a better recommendation. I'm assuming you want more shot ( capacity ) but sometimes more shot, doesn't perform better either. There are experts that say a 1 oz load at 1225 fps - patterns better than 1 1/8 oz at 1300 fps..
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Old November 5, 2008, 05:22 PM   #14
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if your talking case capacity, IIRC, Estate/federals always seem to hold just a skosh more than Win or Rem
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Old November 5, 2008, 07:29 PM   #15
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There are some wad combinations that seem to allow for a little more volume of powder and shot as well - as you get to a point where you start getting an "over-full" shell which will make for some bad crimps - but I still would not deviate from a published recipe.

We still don't know what olddrum1 is trying to do in this application - so we're still guessing until he comes back in to tell us what he's up to.
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Old November 6, 2008, 03:44 AM   #16
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Typed up a long thread on what I was doing but got an error message and lost my thread. I need a hull with a large case capacity for a special load. Cannot be steel hulled. My Ponsness Warren resizing dies are turned to alot closer tolerances than anything out on the market today. Its gotta be brass.
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Old November 6, 2008, 01:39 PM   #17
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If 1 1/2 oz is enough - I would just use a Rem STS or Nitro hull - but you must already have those recipes - so there must be something I don't understand ....?

My Mec hydraulics will handle that load / so I'm sure your Ponsness will handle them as well ...?
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Old November 7, 2008, 01:50 AM   #18
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Heres the long version. A number of years ago I purchased from a distributor a truck load of once fired hulls that came from the Grand Nationals. They sold these nationwide and had gotten tired of hand sorting. I was there picking a ton of shot up when the owner took me out to one of his buildings which was packed full of box upon box of hulls. He ask what I would give for a truck load. I knew there was a deal to be had so I offered him $25. He said that he could not do that but would take $50. I bought the hulls and came back a week later for the shot. I poured the hulls out of the box into the back of my long bed chevy that I had at the time, bought a case of wads that I wedged between me and the passenger side and then poured that space full also.

When I went to reload one brand of these hulls I would get one good reload and then the next two using the same recipe would have the crimp pushed in and the shot would be falling out when the shell came out of the reloader. Measured powder, shot, wads, more powder more wads and was at a wits end. Figured it had to be the case. Contacted the manufacturer, they said that it had to be the reloader or the components. To make a long story short, when I did get ahold of someone in the know, they had made a run of these hulls that had a greater capacity than the regular hull and then discontinued said hull. A one run deal as of sorts. The way you could tell the difference was in how the hull actually had the print on it.

I have a successful load made up for this hull and do not want to change components but I am running out of hulls. I still have about sixteen lbs of powder that I would like to use to make this load.

CB.

Last edited by olddrum1; November 7, 2008 at 01:54 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 7, 2008, 07:50 AM   #19
.45 COLT
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The hull with the largest capacity (that I know of) in current production is the Federal One Piece. They're not real common, they use them for their buckshot loads. A close second is the Fiocchi. They're a lot easier to come by.

DC
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Old November 7, 2008, 05:51 PM   #20
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I thought Fiocchi was shorter than the Rem STS / Nitro's ....so I don't know what to tell you. I've never fussed with Federal hulls. I'm confused - but I enjoyed the story ...thanks.

Can you use the powder for something else / or is it an oddball ? 16lbs of powder isn't too much inventory for those of us that shoot a lot of shotgun shells ...but if the cannisters are opened or unsealed from the factory, you'll have trouble selling it to anyone !
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Old November 7, 2008, 06:51 PM   #21
.45 COLT
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Quote:
I thought Fiocchi was shorter than the Rem STS / Nitro's ....so I don't know what to tell you. I've never fussed with Federal hulls.
I don't know about factory-loaded Fiocchis. I buy new, unfired hulls just for the case capacity. Fiocchis are all straight-walled while the Remingtons are tapered. The Fiocchis aren't good for a lot of reloads though.

DC
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Old November 7, 2008, 08:18 PM   #22
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I knew Fiocchi's weren't known for their durability - and I thought I knew Win AA's were tapered / but I thought Rem STS and Rem Nitro were straight walled ? Apparently, I don't know anything ....I just load them ...( and as long as they go bang, and break targets, I'm ok ).
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Old November 7, 2008, 09:12 PM   #23
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Fiochi is a steel based hull unless they have changed something. A magnet will stick to a primerless case.
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Old November 7, 2008, 09:38 PM   #24
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BigJim you have to eat your way to AAA right. I dont know it just depends on how much you are willing to spend on shells. I go to my local Dick's sporting goods and buy the dove loads ( I have obtain many handicap runner up titles with these this year ). I shoot them fine. This years average was about a 93 in hdcp and dove's were the only things I shot. Anything that goes boom works thats my theory on shells at least. Start with 1 1/8 loads of remington gun clubs most affordable without the hurt on the wallet with the economy and all. If not try the dove's they're 4.99 a box . Oh bigjim you wont beleave this but fed papers were 59.99 a case YEPPE. I dont shoot that much only about 200 cases a year. Thats not to too much is it.
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