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Old October 9, 2008, 12:24 AM   #1
Son of Seeker
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Crazy Shotgun Ammo

Whenever I go to a gunshow I have to stop and gawk at the insane shotgun rounds a table has, they vary from a giant fireball, to two balls with a wire between them, to square BB's, to rubber slugs, to flechets. Whats the purpose of all these and how effective are they at their purpose? Thanks.
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Old October 9, 2008, 12:38 AM   #2
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the rubber slugs are probably nonlethal rds. as for the others, i'd say there just new things to try out for fun. i can't imagine square bbs, the balls w/ wire, or the flechettes would be better then any of the mass produced shells.

the giant fireball sounds pretty cool.

someone should buy a couple rds of all that stuff and video tape it with a high speed camera.
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Old October 9, 2008, 12:40 AM   #3
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Most of it's just a waste of money, and some of it may be illegal in your area.

The dragon breath sound awesome, though. More like an expensive firework than for anything serious.

Flachettes aren't that great; the military stopped using them because even though they did penetrate armor, they didn't create a big enough wound channel to reliably put someone down.

The ones with a wire between two pellets (called a bolo round) is a gimmic, IMO. Probably not any more effective than regular buckshot.

Square BB's are probably another gimmick; my guess is they'd penetrate less than regular BB's, due to a poor sectional density.

Rubber slugs do work, but their use for self defense is iffy. They shouldn't be used unless lethal force is required, because they can easily kill at close ranges (though they're not as likely to as an actual lead slug), however if lethal force IS required they're less likely to effect a good stop. Cops use them for crowd control or for less-than-lethal applications, but they usually do it under very controlled circumstances and at an established distance to minimize the chance of killing someone.
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Old October 9, 2008, 01:19 AM   #4
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Square BB's are probably another gimmick; my guess is they'd penetrate less than regular BB's, due to a poor sectional density.
I've heard of using "cubicalized" target shot (7-1/2 to 9) for super spreading specialty loads.
It's supposed to be very effective for Skeet at Station 8 and similar exhibition shots, but little more.
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Old October 9, 2008, 09:10 AM   #5
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Many years ago a Company manufactured square shot that was meant for hunting and sport shooting where a greater spread was desired. I think the name was "Dispersante" I think. I haven't seen them in many years. There were also a couple of magazine articles on them too.
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Old October 10, 2008, 01:55 AM   #6
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Outside the box

IMO, thinking outside the box might be key...some might be better than none

The Bolo rounds I saw brought Horatio Hornblower to mind. Chain shot was used to damage rigging - sheets, stays, yards and canvas. Seems that small chain shot may be effective against phone lines, power lines, ect.

Square shot (BB sized cubes) I expect will penetrate less than BBs, however those of you that live in an apartment or have non-targets on the other side of an interior walls, may prefer something that doesn't penetrate well.

Flechettes from what I have heard, while having less penetration / wound channel, tend to deflect less off of intervening foliage.

As I recall they also had rounds that had sand like substance that worked like the rubber bullet but was most effective as a breaching round.

P.S. the packaging for the Dragon Breath round says not to use on Public Lands - and as I recall is a 2 ft, 4500f, fireball w/ a range of 100 yrds. Best to have some good liability insurance before using over anything but open water.
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Old October 10, 2008, 02:59 AM   #7
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The "purpose" of these rounds is to separate you from your money.
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:26 AM   #8
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Yeah i see those all the time at the gunshow another wierd thing i saw at the last show someone had a potato gun on their table.
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Old October 10, 2008, 10:35 AM   #9
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I always pick up a case of each kind along with some Extreme Shock Fang Face Viper Teeth Chicken Choker .40 rounds that are marked "Mall Ninjas Only" on the box.
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Old October 10, 2008, 10:41 AM   #10
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I tried to buy those at the last show, but they wouldn't sell them to me because I forgot to bring my Super Secret Mall Ninja Club Ring.
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Old October 10, 2008, 01:28 PM   #11
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Patato guns are a helluva lot of fun for backyard play! just make sure you dont have sissy ass liberal safety mongors aroudn you!
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:06 PM   #12
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Tater guns rock! So do the air powered cannon that shoots soup cans 400 yards in artillery lobbed fashion.
But the coolest was a "grape gun"... I am a mormon and one enterprising missionary from "out west" made one for "p-day" follies... It had a spinny thingy lantern lighter to ignite the butane. I tried tellin' him to leave it with me before he got in trouble. NOOOOOOOO cant tell an 18 year old western boy nuttin'...
They had to meet the missionaries from the next town to car pool and he goes and shoots a grape at their window to let them know they had arrived... Guess the frozen grape was not fully thawed as it broke the window...
I tried to tell him
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:10 PM   #13
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Son of Seeker

Here is a web site with most of the Scattergun toy shells you see at a gun show Delta Force. com. So, now you can party without a stamp on your hand.

Bill D and I are usually at different ends of questions, However, for this one he is CORRECT.

I have tried a lot of these, most are pigs, some are OK. Have fun

Flechettes were designed to penetrate thick vegetation, and jungle, IN that role they performed well. Not of much value today unless you happen to be stuck in the costal plain of South East Asia.

Good Luck & Be Safe
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:38 PM   #14
hogdogs
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Thanks scattergun!!!!
Them rounds are too pricey for me to play with but I sure got a kick out of reading about them! Now I need to save up... I need them steel core metal cutter rounds and the fire balls plus a full propane tank... Bet I can light my daughter's green wood bonfire then!
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Old October 10, 2008, 06:53 PM   #15
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The subject of flechettes came up on another forum. A member from there and I conducted some informal tests; they were NOT, I say again, NOT impressive.

At a distance of 15 yards the pattern spread across 2 shooting lanes, wall to wall. About a 6-foot diameter spread. That translates to about 28 square foot to be covered by 20 flechettes. Right about now, I think you can see problem No. 1.

Problem No.2 is that none of the flechettes penetrated any significant distance into a protective vest. None, zip, nada, effectively penetrated.

We moved forward to 7-yards and tried it again. Two flechettes penetrated deeply enough into the plywood backing that they stuck +/- 1/4 to 3/8 penetration. A few darts struck the protective best; of those that struck one or two buried themselves up to the fins, no further. That's about 3/4 to 1 inch penetration, somewhat short of the 12-14 inches minimum recommended penetration to be effective. We found the majority of the darts laying on the floor in front of the improvised target having struck sideways and bounced off.

I'll give one more illustration from our testing.....
A 22 short from a rifle was fired as a control; it penetrated deeper than the most effective flechetted when fired into a telephone book.
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Old October 10, 2008, 08:05 PM   #16
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The "purpose" of these rounds is to separate you from your money.
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Old October 10, 2008, 08:28 PM   #17
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Back before choke tubes, square pellets were used in a type of spreader
round for close in hunting small game/girds with a fixed full choke.
Other than that who knows.
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Old October 10, 2008, 09:55 PM   #18
.45 COLT
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That Deltaforce .com has some great deals. Where else can you get three rounds of 00 Buckshot for only $16.95? And their fantastic Pit Bull.......well, what can one say? (Except that it doesn't have a 1.3 ounce slug - it has a .60" round ball with six 00 Buck. That, and I load them for around $0.16 a round, with fair results. Not 3 for $14.95 results though).

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Old October 13, 2008, 04:34 PM   #19
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bolo round

Bolo rounds were used for cutting rigging. Pirates use them to bring down sails.
Don't know why they are still made or who other than pirates and coast guard would need them.
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Old October 13, 2008, 10:16 PM   #20
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Very interesting...
A round I forgot to mention: sand-like "door/lock buster", how well do those work?
and on the bolo rounds will the three inches of wire be enough to cause enough damage to be effective?
Whats the recoil like on all these?
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:20 AM   #21
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Rubber slugs do work, but their use for self defense is iffy. They shouldn't be used unless lethal force is required, because they can easily kill at close ranges (though they're not as likely to as an actual lead slug), however if lethal force IS required they're less likely to effect a good stop. Cops use them for crowd control or for less-than-lethal applications, but they usually do it under very controlled circumstances and at an established distance to minimize the chance of killing someone.
while in the ao of camp bucca, Iraq, on the emergency reaction force, I can attest to the close range(5 yds) to 25 yard use. the slugs are accurate, headshots at 25 yards with a beadsight were not uncommon (leaves a little bruise) , rubber buck was used more often though and will leave a nasty wound at very close range, however that are called less lethal for a reason and I would never trust my life to these in a hd situation, short of a rubber buckshot to the face at 3 yards, I wouldn't consider these lethal at all judging by shots I have seen made during riots and forced extractions.
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Old October 19, 2008, 05:31 AM   #22
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I used some draggon's breath rounds. I think its made from magnesium? It worked as advertised, it shot very long and very bright sparks out to about 60 yards. What was impressive was it looked like one giant spark reaching out from th barrel all the way out to 60 or so yards. It spread about 6-8 feet in diameter at that range. I only had 3, it was about $15 for a pack. I shot one into a tree at about 8 yards, not too impressive. Last I shot one into a IPSC target. A rough sort of pattern not like buck or bird shot. There were burn marks but the target did not catch on fire. I think they would be great for crowd control or if you wanted to burn your victim. I think buck shot of any size would do more damage on flesh based on what I saw on the IPSC target and tree.
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Old October 19, 2008, 07:15 AM   #23
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It would be interesting to test out the Bolo rounds at some distance... say 25 and 50 yards. If the two balls are of slightly unequal weight, they might spin on a point between them and have some spectacular effects. The worry about the Bolo rounds is that it could very well cause amputation of limbs. In legal actions after the fact, this could land you in a serious legal situation.

The other rounds I've seen include tear gas projectiles and tear gas projectors. The projectors simply disperse the tear gas agent at the muzzle. Just be sure of your wind direction. The tear gas projectiles look like a mini barrage balloon and deliver the tear gas on impact.

Most of the multi-size ball & buckshot loads are gimmicks.

There is a 12-gauge flash-bang load too. Unfortunately it does it's work at the muzzle, limiting its usefulness. Especially at about $8 per flash-bang!

I could see uses for the "dragon's breath", tear gas and rubber ball/buckshot loads in crowd control or post-disaster defense. Use of these items when a mob of unfriendlies is approaching your house may persuade them to look for easier prey. It'd be pretty nerve wracking to see a 60-ft spout of flame from a window or door, especially if one or more of your mob got hit with it. Then a follow up with a tear gas projectile that makes it unpleasant to be there might do the trick.

Rubber buckshot is good fired low into the legs or into the pavement just ahead of a mob so they bounce. The most cost effective seems to be Sellier & Bellot ($26.95) or Fiocchi ($29.95) at Ammunition to Go -- for 25rds or about $1.20 per shell.
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Old October 20, 2008, 08:17 AM   #24
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Oh, I forgot i tried one round of rubber ball/slug. My firend got them at the gun show, it was pittiful. Sounded like a .22CB short and absolutely no recoil. You could hear the hammer click. I shot it a some ply wood. I did not see the round impact and it left no mark. I'd trust throwing a brick more. On the other hand I used some new bean bag rounds the Louisville PD uses. They are very impressive! They really thump hard on ply wood and are very accurate out to 25 yards. I could hit a standard size sheet of paper at 25 yard with only a bead sight all day long. These were a new style with tails on them. They looked like yellow octopuss. I think they are kevlar bags with about a oz. of shot inside. They would not bust open even it they hit concrete. I've seen some bruises left by these, and they looked nasty.
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Old October 20, 2008, 11:47 AM   #25
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bigger, better bolo

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCA
It would be interesting to test out the Bolo rounds at some distance... say 25 and 50 yards. If the two balls are of slightly unequal weight, they might spin on a point between them and have some spectacular effects. The worry about the Bolo rounds is that it could very well cause amputation of limbs. In legal actions after the fact, this could land you in a serious legal situation.
Yes, a 12-ga Bolo with lead balls and a wire connector might make a horrendous wound. For some time, I've wondered if a larger bore Bolo (launched from something the size of a 4 cell maglite or LE baton) with rubber balls and fabric connecting strap/s might be just the thing for LE to stop a fleeing suspect.
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