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Old October 1, 2008, 11:34 PM   #26
zippy13
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Kestrel
The H & R New Topper Trap appears to be vaporware, thus far. It's shown in the H&R catalog, but there don't seem to be any available. When David56 first expressed an interest in the SB1-130T, I did a quick Google. Lot's of folks are curious, but no one admits to seeing one.
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Old October 1, 2008, 11:44 PM   #27
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You don't need to spend a bundle for a trapgun

Quote:
"Looking at all the recommendations, one thing I find is, trap shotguns are expensive."
My SKB trapgun (rather unconventional, since it's a SxS double) is quite expensive. OTOH, I've shot trap with a Mossberg 500 with a Polychoke, and it worked just fine, and it didn't cost much. Same thing goes for a Remington 870 and an old Marlin 120. Pump-actions are generally cheap and reliable. Never tried a semi-auto, though.

Trap shooters tend to be the biggest snobs there are, and I got looked down on with my SxS double SKB M200E, custom fitted to me by a smithy, until one day I shot a 25/25 and 96/100 for the day. I was smiling from ear-to-ear all the way home!

If it fits *YOU* and works for *YOU*, then an inexpensive gun is every bit as good as a Perazzi or Benneli, SKB, or any other double. Practice is the key. It just happens that I like SxS doubles and have been shooting them for 30 years, so those just work best for me.

Just "Bring whatcha got" and practice. Even a cheap, old H&R Topper will do the job if you do your part.

And if you beat the guy with the $5K Perrazi, I can guarantee you'll be smiling all the way home, too!
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Old October 1, 2008, 11:58 PM   #28
Virginia94
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Winchester 101 Field Model for Trap/Skeet?

I've been looking at shotguns for general trap/skeet shooting. I'm not experienced much at all really. I shot a Remington 1100 the past few times that I went shooting.
I found a Winchester 101 20 gauge that I'd like to buy, but want to make sure that I know what I'm getting in to. Gun owner says that it's a very late 1970's year model, asking $1059. I think it's 28 inch - or it looks it.
I've been doing lots and lots of searching on a 20 ga Winchester 101 and there's not a whole lot out there on the web.
He also says it's a Field Model, but I couldn't find a word about the Field model in 20 gauge.
1)If this gun is suitable, What do I need to know about chokes for this gun?
2) Is this gun okay for trap and skeet? I do realize that they're different and most use longer lengths for trap and shorter for skeet. I think this might be a better skeet gun?
3) This gun has only been shot maybe twice. Would I be "ruining" it by firing it often? I hate to buy a gun that I would not use out of fear of ruining it.
4) Anything else I should know?

Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.
Michelle
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Old October 2, 2008, 07:28 AM   #29
Dave McC
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Trap guns tend to be long, heavy and tightly choked. I did well with an 870TB, and added a few oz of weight to steady the piece and reduce felt recoil.

I have grave doubts about the NEF platform holding up under heavy use.

Lest I be accused of gun snobbery, I'm fond of the little singles for hunting, toting, etc. I just recognize their limits.

If I were putting together a trap gun on a budget I'd get an 870 WM with 30" Full barrel. I'd add weight and fit the gun to me by shimming or adding pads to get the pattern to about 60/40.

I'd then shoottheheckoutofit.

HTH....
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Old October 2, 2008, 08:10 AM   #30
Jim Watson
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Quote:
I found a Winchester 101 20 gauge that I'd like to buy,
I am sure somebody will say he shoots trap with a 20 gauge, but it is not the best choice.

On the other hand, a 20 is just about right for skeet.

Skeet chokes are open, somewhere between cylinder and improved cylinder. I would expect a standard field grade 28" 20 to be choked full and modified, again, usable but not ideal. Fixable, though.
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Old October 2, 2008, 03:48 PM   #31
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I've used my imported Mossberg SA-20 20 gauge w/28" screw choke barrel a few times for trap and it is fine, even with 7/8 oz loads. You have to be on them very quickly though. I was using an I.C choke tube. It's a very light gun, but being semi auto, virtually no recoil at all! I was just trying it out for practice as a light field gun, but I got it for my wife and younger son to shoot trap with. I figured the kids in our 4H shooting sports group could also handle it better than a 12g for trap! It's a clone of a Beretta 300 Series and fairly well made in Turkey. No probelms at all yet! You can get them for well under $375 out the door brand new with 5 choke tubes and a stock shim kit to fit it to you!
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Old October 2, 2008, 04:47 PM   #32
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I've always thought it would be funny as hell to show up w/a beat up old H&R and whip everyone's butt. Alas, I'm not near that good and probably never will be. BT-99 is a real nice gun. Best out there for the money.
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Old October 2, 2008, 06:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
On the other hand, a 20 is just about right for skeet.
There is no "just about right" for Skeet -- any gauge is right. Unlike 12-ga trap, Skeet is competed in .410-bore, 28-ga, 20-ga and 12-ga. You can shoot what ever you want for practice; however, I don't recommend you try a .410 until you're proficient with a 12.

Like the fellows getting a big smile from out scoring the big bucks trap shooters; Skill with the .410 can give you some really big smiles:
Other Guy: "I only missed 2 of 25! Pretty good, eh... how'd you do?"
You: "I missed few more, I dropped 4."
Other Guy: "Too bad, better luck next time."
You: "Yea, 4 out of 100..."
Other Guy: "Oh! That's good shooting."
You: "... with my .410."
Other Guy: (Silence)

For what it's worth, I owned two Winchester 101's for many years; a 12 and .410, both Skeet grade. For me, their stocks were too narrow and too low. Both were too light and didn't swing very smoothly. They were handsome, but that doesn't break targets. When I upgraded to a single U/O with tubes, my scores skyrocketed. Only then did I come to realize the short comings of the 101's.
It's no wonder the 101 .410 had such a nice piece of wood -- no one else wanted a sock blank that small.
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Old October 2, 2008, 06:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McC
If I were putting together a trap gun on a budget I'd get an 870 WM with 30" Full barrel. I'd add weight and fit the gun to me by shimming or adding pads to get the pattern to about 60/40
I just changed the stock shim on a 391 and it still looks like it's not quite right for me. I'm hoping for 60/40. I'll be trying it tomorrow. I still see a little more rib on the barrel than I want. I wonder if Beretta sells shims in more angles.

On the other hand, my 870s seem to fit just right and they aren't shimmed. I shot my first round of real skeet a couple of weeks ago with an 870 and did okay for being new, I guess, but I don't know enough to know it it fits right. (The fellows shooting Beretta O/Us were probably thinking the same thing.)

Now, bear in mind this is coming from someone that is brand new to skeet and trap. I'm sure I'll develop a sense of what fits as I go along.

As an aside, I also shot trap for the first time that same day. I did all of this with an I/C choke tube (didn't even know what choke you are supposed to use). I could tell the disadvantage of the I/C choke on trap, though. Those things are out there before you know it!

I will say this about the experience. I shot the round of skeet with a nice fellow that offered a lot of helpful advice. My shooting improved halfway through the round just because of his advice. Hope I'm as helpful to new clay shooters down the road as he was that day. What a difference.

It's funny - I've shot shotguns since I was a kid and thought I would do better before going out there, but I felt like a novice when I started shooting that day. It's harder than it looks, but what a blast!
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Old October 2, 2008, 10:27 PM   #35
Virginia94
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Well, I bought it. It's a nice gun, but I'm not sure how much I'll actually shoot it. It's nice.
I thought it was 28 inches, but is 26 and 1/2. It has a mod and an I.C. choke.
Jim, I guess my reasoning is that if I can shoot with a 20 ga, then I should never have a problem with a 12. I guess I figure that if you start with a 20, that that will force you to shoot better. I don't mind shooting a 12 gauge, but I don't think I could shoot too many rounds without my shoulder getting sore.
I haven't shot lots, so I will see how it goes.
Thanks-
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Old October 3, 2008, 06:18 AM   #36
Dave McC
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Kestrel, a couple things....

Clays and hunting are very different. Don't feel bad about not doing well. You'll get better. Since you'll be shooting much more, your hunting averages will improve. Win-Win.

I can obliterate trap singles with an IC choke, but I've fired a few thousand rounds every years at them for the last 8 or so. A full choke will cost you a few birds now, but it's great for making you get on them tight and that's what you want.

There's two good ways I know to check gun fit at the range.

First, the patterning board. Used properly, this can determine POI/POA issues and thus, how your gun should be adjusted.

Second, a trap locked down to only throw straightaway targets and shooting from Post 3 can give you an idea of where you're hitting them. Use your tightest choke tube.

There's a rule of opposites here.

If the big piece (assuming one is left) goes up, the shot is striking the bottom of the clay. If it flies left, your striking on the right and so on. Move the stock in the direction you want the pattern to shift.

HTH.....
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Old October 4, 2008, 11:13 PM   #37
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Quote:
"Gun owner says that it's a very late 1970's year model, asking $1059."
Well, IMHO, that's too much. You can get a new Mossberg or Remington for less than half that. As for gauge, I've got twelves, but I've seen guys (and gals) do just as well with a twenty. My scores actually went up when I down-loaded my 12-Ga. handloads to 1oz of #8 shot and 3dr. equiv. of powder. That's right about where a 20-Ga. is. Either one will do the job if you do your part. More important, just go have fun.

Oh, BTW, the only choke I used from the standard 16yd trap line was the modified. I've done a little shooting from the 27yd line, and that's where the full choke came in handy. Those little clays are hardly specks at that range.
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Old October 5, 2008, 07:53 PM   #38
David56
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Thank you all.

I would like to thank every one for all the responses.
You all sound very knowledgeable about shotguns.
BigJimP has set me on the path to seek out a good pump 12ga that will shoot trap and serve me as a bird gun also.
I'm going to go through all your responses, and research the recommendations every one has given.
Thank you again, everyone, for all the good feedback.
This seems like a great forum.
By the way, I looked at a couple of single shot shotguns by New England Fire Arms Mfg.,
And I noticed "made in china" stamped on the barrels.
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Old October 11, 2008, 03:39 PM   #39
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Narrowing my choices.

I'm looking at two Remington 870's right now.
One is a 870 Express brand new, the other is a 870 Express Magnum used.
Both under $300.00.
Would both do for trap shooting?
H&R has a pump,model NP1-228, for under $200.00 dollars, but made in China.
The price on the H&R is really attractive, but the made in China seems to have a stigma attached to it.
Any thoughts?
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Old October 11, 2008, 09:26 PM   #40
Kestrel
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David,

The NEF single shots were stamped China???
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Old October 12, 2008, 06:40 AM   #41
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No, the "Pardner" pumps are made in China. The singles are still USA made. I am quite surprised at the prices the USED Pardner pumps are getting (being made in China) When they first came out, I saw them at Gander Mt. for $129.99 Syn Stock/ field bbl. and $149.99 for Wood/field bbl, then $159.99 for syn/rifle slug bbl. That was just about 2-3 yrs ago? Now they're up over the $200 makr everywhere and getting around $175+ USED? I'd buy a Mossberg 500 USED before one of the Pardners! I can buy used Mossy field guns for $115-$140 range all day.
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Old October 13, 2008, 11:50 PM   #42
David56
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Last post

I bought a 870 Express.
The price was right, plus a $30.00 rebate.
I enjoyed reading all your replies. It helped.
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Old October 14, 2008, 12:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
"I bought a 870 Express.
The price was right, plus a $30.00 rebate.
I enjoyed reading all your replies. It helped."
I can't imagine how you would be disappointed. The 870 has a great reputation, reliable, inexpensive, and to the best of my knowledge, still made in the USA. I didn't know that H&Rs were being made in China now, but that would be a major turn-off for me.
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Old October 14, 2008, 01:11 AM   #44
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Quote:
I bought a 870 Express.
Excellent choice. That shotgun will serve you well.

Cheaper ammo, choke tube options and your interest in shooting your new gun should give you a nice improvement in trap.

Your next round of improvements will be based on A LOT of shooting
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Old October 14, 2008, 07:52 AM   #45
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David56,
If you are still interested in a trap gun I have a Remington single barrel trap gun, with ported barrel and screw in choke tubes that I'll sell. The price of the gun is $259.95 plus shipping to your FFL. If interested give me a call at the shop (816) 675-2340.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:19 AM   #46
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Trap shooting is such a blast. Me and two buddies shoot trap every saturday and shoot about 100-125 shots each. Darn expensive but a real fun time. My gun is a mossberg 500 12ga with 28" ribbed barrel. Choke is modified. It was bought used and only had one choke. We take turns shooting ten clays, sometimes I am 10 for ten and then I go 5 for ten. I'm not that good yet, but I am surprised to see you guys recommend a full choke, I been thinking a skeet choke might improve my results. Now I am confused. My buddies shoot a rem 870 and a New Englands Arms both 12ga and pumps. Both of their guns have skeet choke tubes and I do shoot them more consistantly well. If I remove my choke and shoot without one will that be equal to a skeet choke or will I cause serious damage to the gun.

We have only been shooting since April, but I really hate going 5 for ten, when I am capable of 10 out of ten. I actually purchased the gun for Deer and with my slug barrel it is dead on at 25 yards.
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:41 AM   #47
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Deet,

Don't shoot it without the choke tube in it - you'll destroy the threads in the barrel. I can't imagine the patterns being very good, either.

It wouldn't be expensive to buy another choke tube, if you want to switch.
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Old October 19, 2008, 07:53 PM   #48
David56
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Having fun with my new 870.

I just got back from the trap range, where I shot 4 rounds.
I hit enough clays to encourage me to go back for more.
I didn't think it was all that expensive. A little over $40.00 for 100 shells and the 4 rounds of clays. I spend more than that on just gas when I go fishing.
Thanks for the offer on the trap gun, Hunter Customs , but I've already made my purchase and I love my wife, If you know what I mean.
By the way skeeter1, I'm not disappointed with the 870. It was a joy to shoot and I got 85 clays out of a 100. A couple of the other guys there said that wasn't bad for a beginner.
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Old October 19, 2008, 09:46 PM   #49
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Remington 870 Wingmaster

I shot trap for 5 or 6 years, reloaded all my own shells during that time too.
I tried a few guns and finally settled on an old Remington 870 Wingmaster. It had a 30 inch barrel, full choke, dual white beads, and had a monte carlo type stock with an adjustable recoil pad (had up/down adjustablility).
That was a GREAT trap gun. And for hunting, I'd pull the long trap barrel off and throw on a 26" barrel with removable choke tubes. Great combo.
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