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Old June 11, 2008, 10:52 AM   #1
WINSTON THE WOLF
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scope's what's a good one for bullseye

scope's what's a good REASONABLE scope. Not a cheap one, but a good one for bullseye target shooting. I just got into the sport and want to get better. I have a Walther p22. That you can put a weaver scope mount on. But have no clue what would be a good scope.

Thanks in advance
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Old June 11, 2008, 12:56 PM   #2
Vitesse304
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no offense, but a Walther p22 is not a good candidate for .22 bullseye.

I have a p22, and I love it as a plinker, but a super accurate gun, it is not.

For a good entry level bullseye gun that you can compete on the local level with, check out a used Ruger Mark II.
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Old June 11, 2008, 09:11 PM   #3
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I shot a Ruger mark 2 target pistol last weekend , I did better with my p22. I laser bored the p22. My friend who owns the Ruger did better with my p22 also at 18 yards

At a match Monday I shot 3 bulleyes at 25 yds. My score was 507. out of 900 I am happy with that since it was the 2nd time shooting the gun and the first time at 25 yards. a scope might help.
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Old June 11, 2008, 09:19 PM   #4
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I'd go with a good red dot for quicker shots. I use a C-more with 4 MOA dot on my 22/45 for the .22lr pistol shoots here.
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Old June 11, 2008, 09:44 PM   #5
WINSTON THE WOLF
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Thanks hoytinak
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Old June 14, 2008, 05:33 PM   #6
Old Gaffer
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I've had my fill of cheap red-dots from WalMart, etc. Stay away from them. You might well get one zeroed in, but the likelihood of it jumping out of zero is too great to bother with them.

I've heard Good Things about the Burris red dot (about $80-90), and the current gold standard is the Ultra Dot at about $130 from Larry's Guns.

My wife's first pistol was a P22, and she bought it after trying the Neos, Ruger MK ll and MKlll and a couple of others at a range, where they ALL jammed. We didn't know it was because they were too dirty to function!

Anyhow, I just bought her a dot mount and put an ultra dot on it for her and she loves it. She's still more accurate with her Browning Buckmark, MY buckmark, and my High Standard, but it'll be the P22 that gets pried from her cold dead hands. She flat out loves that gun for some reason.

BTW, don't let the nay-sayers (me among them) bad mouth your P22, there are folks that are reasonably successful with them in Bulls Eye shooting, and if they're having fun, what else is required?

All the best,
Rob
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Old June 14, 2008, 07:31 PM   #7
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I dunno I could hit beer cans or tennis balls from 40 or so yards every time with my p22... no kind of optics attached.
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Old June 15, 2008, 01:18 PM   #8
WINSTON THE WOLF
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Thanks Rob, I think I am going to go with a scope. To help pin point my shots. All I see is a black spot at 25 yards. Yeah getting older sucks!!

From what I hear most red don't don't have magnification. And the gun club is going to be switching to 50 yards soon. I have been looking at Weaver, Bushnell, and Simmons handgun scopes.

But for a scope I can also use on my bigger revolvers.

The members shoot an average of 850 to 875 out of 900 points. Where I shoot. So I need all the help I can get.
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Old June 16, 2008, 04:36 PM   #9
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WINSTON THE WOLF wrote
Quote:
, I think I am going to go with a scope. To help pin point my shots. All I see is a black spot at 25 yards. Yeah getting older sucks!!
You think getting old sucks? Try the alternative!

For all intent and purposes, all you NEED to see at 25 OR 50 yards is the front sight; the bullseye SHOULD be a black blob, or you're focusing on the wrong thing.

As unintuitive as it sounds, the target is NOT where you should be looking - if you're using iron sights, focus on the front sight, and if you're using a dot, focus on the dot. Ignore the target, it has darned little to do with your score, believe it or not.

The real problem with using an un-scoped P22 is that the sights are only very roughly adjustable for elevation, and the elevation setting changes between the long and short lines. The adjustment isn't much, because on a properly sighted-in pistol, the bullet is still climbing at 25 yards, and sinking at 50. The highest point in it's trajectory is somewhere around 40 yards in BE shooting. I generally RAISE the sights when changing from 50 yards to 25 yards by about two clicks on my dot - other dots and other guns vary in how much adjustment is needed.

Quote:
From what I hear most red don't don't have magnification. And the gun club is going to be switching to 50 yards soon. I have been looking at Weaver, Bushnell, and Simmons handgun scopes.

But for a scope I can also use on my bigger revolvers.

The members shoot an average of 850 to 875 out of 900 points. Where I shoot. So I need all the help I can get.
Honestly, if you're going to get seriously into Bulls Eye shooting, you really are going to be much better served by buying a pistol that has a trigger that can be worked on. The P22 trigger just isn't going to get you into Expert or Master territory no matter how much you spend on a scope or Eley Tenex ammo, or anything else. And magnified scopes are prohibited by the rules, so you're not going to get any help in that department.

As far as taking a scope off your BE pistol and putting in on a big revolver, I'd advise against it. You certainly CAN scope a revolver, and when it comes time to do so, I suggest you just buy another scope.

I shot a personal best 832 with my Browning Buck Mark last winter (with a trigger job and a few other mods you can read about on rimfirecentral), and since "graduating" to a High Standard Victor, I've bumped that up to 847 - and yes, I use a dot. I DID break 800 with iron sights, and at my age (55), I can't rely on my eyes s much as I used to.

Several of the folks at my club too shoot in the Master-to -High Master territory on a regular basis, and it's downright funny to hear them whine about their rare shot in the eight ring

All the best,
Rob
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Old June 29, 2008, 05:06 PM   #10
WINSTON THE WOLF
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I got a red dot A friend gave me one to try out. I like it. Did awesome at 11 yards. Did good at 20 but 25yds is still a bit more difficult. but I can see the dot just fine compaired to the irons..... That was a major problem to me. Remember bad eyes

Do you have to change the red dot sighting from 11 yds to 25yds?

A guy at my range has a Ruger Mark 3 with an Ultra dot for sale. If I do better with the p22. I will probably get the Ruger next.

Thanks again
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Old June 30, 2008, 05:48 PM   #11
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Old Gaffer is correct. Focus on the sight or dot. Target is a blur.
I recommend a Ultradot. They have a lifetime warranty.
I have a Marklll, nice gun, not so good trigger(out of the box). It is now my plinker.
Now I use a S&W 41 for BE. Hope to put a Clark barrel on it, one day. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/
If I could do it all over, I would save for a Hammerli 208s.
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ has a ton of info.
Personally I do not change my dot elevation, between 25yd and 50yd.
I put my aim point a little higher at 50yd. Standard velocity target load is what I have been using for BE.
Good Luck!
Keep it in the Bull!

Mark
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Old July 1, 2008, 08:04 PM   #12
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Winston,

The question of whether or not you have to change your dot from 11 to 25 yards (or between any other two distances) is largely a function of which ammo you're using.

I presume you're using a high velocity ammo since the P22 won't reliably run on regular/standard velocity ammo. There's software out there that can calculate the rise/fall for a given "zero" adjustment, but the real answer is on your target; if your groups move between the two distances then you need to move your sights or dot.

BTW, having to use high velocity ammo is a real bummer in bulls eye shooting - it just makes coming back on target that much harder in timed and rapid fire. You might be able to find a gunsmith that can tune your gun to run reliably on standard velocity ammo, and if you continue in BE shooting with your P22 as your pistol of choice, it might be well worth while to seek him or her out.

Al the best,
Rob
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Old July 1, 2008, 08:47 PM   #13
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I keep the same zero on my 22/45 set at 25yrds (our 8" plates are set at 15,25 and 50) and it does just fine using Federal bulk packs.
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Old July 4, 2008, 12:17 PM   #14
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hoytinak wrote
Quote:
I keep the same zero on my 22/45 set at 25yrds (our 8" plates are set at 15,25 and 50) and it does just fine using Federal bulk packs.
8" PLATES Dang, if that's all I was shooting at I wouldn't even HAVE sights, much less worry about adjusting them

The topic is BULLS EYE shooting, not "8 ring shooting".

Seriously, Hoyt brings up a good point, the ballistics of the .22 cartridge is such that there's not a great deal of rise/fall within the first 50 yards; it's generally between 50 and 100 yards where things start to fall apart, and beyond 100 yards, there's quite a bit of drop.



This chart pretty clearly show that there's only a couple of inches variation between zero and about 70 yards - certainly not enough to warrant fiddling with the sights.

All the best,
Rob
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Old July 6, 2008, 02:17 AM   #15
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Optic sights aren't allowed in all flavours of .22 competitive bullseye shooting.
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Old July 10, 2008, 06:36 PM   #16
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I fired the NRA .22 National Championship match this morning at Camp Perry. It consisted of a 20 round slow fire match, a 30 round "National Match Course", a timed fire match, and a rapid fire match.

When I started shooting rimfire bullseye I was using an old stainless S&W M2206 with a "Famous Maker" red dot.

Pretty much El Cheapo Deluxo. Eventually dumped the S&W M2206 because it would jam too often with standard velocity ammo and the trigger was just gritty and awful. Probably had something to do with the magazine disconnect safety S&W insists on...except for their Model 41.

From there I went to High Standard .22 pistols. I really, really wanted to like those guns. But I ran into too many magazines that wouldn't feed ammo reliably. Got sick of having to do alibi fires at matches.

Then I went to the Ruger MKII. Here was something I could work with and Experts and Masters in my league used them too. I learned how to install Volquartsen triggers, sears, and match hammers. Easy stuff. I added on Herret stocks with an adjustable palm shelf. I added an Ultradot.

My scores went up. They would have continued to go up, but I decided to get an Italian Pardini .22 pistol. Then those scores really started to go up.

You are going to run into a wall with the Walther. You can't add an adjustable trigger or match sear or lightened hammer. You can't add a Rink Olympic-style set of grips. The gun is likely too light. A little more heft is actually easier to hold steadier.

Just me talking, but at a minimum I'd say Ruger Mk II or III for bullseye. You don't need an Ultradot (mine eventually broke). I use a cheaper Millet red dot and it works great for me.
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Old July 10, 2008, 07:21 PM   #17
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Citizen Carrier,
I haven't had a Ultradot break on me yet. Did you send it to Larry?
I was just wondering if they do stand by the "lifetime warranty".
Hope you did well at Perry.
I heard it's been a little wet down there!
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Old July 10, 2008, 07:45 PM   #18
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What happened is the rheostat, or power dial, lost it's "click" adjustments. It would just spin freely. Not sure what would cause that. Must be a worn detent in there or something. Not like I was rough on it or anything.

I did okay today. I'm on leave from Kuwait and I've been away from bullseye shooting since probably December. Most I could do in Kuwait was lift weights and do occassional dry fire with stock M9 pistols from the arms room.

On the NRA website:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/champ3.asp#1

I come in on the third page of competitors out of four pages. I don't feel so bad, as I'm an "unclassified" shooter and I managed to score better than others who are classified.

Yes, it was wet. I have a few pictures of Lake Perry on my camera. I got rained out of the Harry Reeves and Distinguished Revolver matches, which I had to reshoot the next morning before the Preliminary Aggregate matce. I was completely soaked the first day and my feet and socks were wet all the next day.
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Old July 17, 2008, 05:30 AM   #19
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scope for Bullseye

"From there I went to High Standard .22 pistols." Yes. Finicky magazines and all, absolutely the best American made .22 target pistol . I have shot a Victor for years - have a few mags that are very reliable.
I have also campaigned a Ruger MK.II but with less success - though I have shot my best slow fire score with it.
Pardinis are sweet. I have a Pardini free pistol that is a work of art.
About the P22 - I agree about hitting a wall with it. A fellow that started shooting in our indoor league last winter was using a P22. He, also, was shooting around 500. I lent him my H-S for a match and his scores immediately jumped into the 700s.
The scope is a one inch Ultra Dot. I also use the small JPoint reflex sights on my Ruger and on my Gold Cup.
Pete

Last edited by darkgael; July 17, 2008 at 09:51 PM.
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Old July 17, 2008, 11:20 AM   #20
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well I am getting better with the p22 my scores have gone up 504, 488 with irons. to a 631 with a red dot then a 664. but it should have been better 1 miss in 6 rounds then I went blind 4 misses in one round Still thinking about a Ruger. But I like playing with the Walter. I want to see if I can break 750 with it.

I know what the problem was. I literally went blind. I shot the first six rounds with distance glasses. shot the 7th with my working glasses. I can really only see up to about 10 feet with them before everything gets fuzzy. Went back to the distance glasses and no misses.

Next time I am leaving the working glasses in the truck!!!!
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Old July 18, 2008, 09:12 AM   #21
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Scope for bullseye

The standard bearer at Camp Perry is the UltraDot Match Dot. It's a no-power dot either 1" or 30mm in width. Its about 190 bucks. Its basically a "hardened" red-dot capable of withstanding recoil if mounted directly to the slide of a .45 and has variable sized dots and variable light intensity. 2, 4, 6, 8 MOA dots. MOA means minute of angle and translates into 2, 4, 6, 8 inches at 100 yards. At 50 yards, dots would appear to be 1, 2, 3, and 4 inches wide

For .22s, just about any red-dot would work becuase the scope doesn't actually move with a recoiling slide. The recoil of the 22 is so light that even a cheapo sight would probably keep zero. I've used barska, tasco red dots and both worked better than I was capable of holding. I've seen some reflex sights on the line too. My boss used one from Osprey International / AimShot and actually placed at Camp Perry using it (third best Marksman Civilian this year at Perry). He splurged on an UltraDot this year for his .22 once he convinced himself he could be a serious contender at a higher level.

If you want a capable reflex sight, I think he is selling his old one for like $45 bucks. Let me know...
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Old July 25, 2008, 11:29 AM   #22
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Thanks for thye info Jessica, I just got a Barska 2x red dot. Looks great, but is a little bulky. I have it mounted on my .357 I want to see if it can handle the recoil. The .357 took out a BSA red dot. If it works out. I might get a smaller one for the Walther.
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Old September 16, 2008, 10:14 AM   #23
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Sorry if I sound nuts but I am new to this.

What sort of results should i expect with the following.

A Sig P229 with a .22 barrel conversion...( like P226 conversion ).

Sig P229 with Ultradot match scope.

Buck mark with & 7 inch barrel with scope
or

High Standard or S & W M41 with 7 inch barrel and scope.

I thought that using the P229 with the conversion would help my gun handling but using same gun for USPSA....and save a few dollars.

Am I in for disappointment..???

What suggestions
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Old September 16, 2008, 11:23 AM   #24
kraigwy
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Quote:
scope's what's a good REASONABLE scope. Not a cheap one, but a good one for bullseye target shooting. I just got into the sport and want to get better. I have a Walther p22. That you can put a weaver scope mount on. But have no clue what would be a good scope.
I'm assuming you are talking about Bullseye Pistol, as in 2700 & such.

If you get into bullseye, you're gonna want to work on your Distinguished pistol badge (EIC) matches. Iron sights are required in these matches. Stay away from scopes, aimpoints & such until you get your badge.

After, I think you will find the Aimpoint sights are what most use. But the first thing you need to do is get the rules for Bullseye pistol shooting. They can get restrictive on optics.

If you are serious about Bullseye pistol shooting , pm me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the USAMU Pistol Marksmanship Guide on .pdf file. This is the best book you can get on bullseye shooting AND ITS FREE.

I think you will enjoy bullseye, there is no better venue for learning pistol marksmanship fundamentals unless its ISU pistol shooting.
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Old September 19, 2008, 05:14 PM   #25
Old Gaffer
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SCH wrote
Quote:
Sorry if I sound nuts but I am new to this.

What sort of results should i expect with the following.

A Sig P229 with a .22 barrel conversion...( like P226 conversion ).

Sig P229 with Ultradot match scope.

Buck mark with & 7 inch barrel with scope
or

High Standard or S & W M41 with 7 inch barrel and scope.

I thought that using the P229 with the conversion would help my gun handling but using same gun for USPSA....and save a few dollars.

Am I in for disappointment..???

What suggestions
SCH, I'm not familiar with the P229, so I'll forebear to comment on that one, EXCEPT to say that you can use a trigger with a two pound pull weight in .22 competition and unless your Sig trigger is VERY good, you'll probably just develop bad habits that you'll later have to break.

The BuckMark really is a decent introductory-level pistol for target shooting, and a helluva plinker to be sure. My Buck Mark Hunter has the 7.25" barrel, and I shot Bullseye with it with iron sights for about a year before I upgraded. There's an active community on BuckMark fans on rimfirecentral with a gazillion things a reasonably handy person can do him-or-herself (at v-e-r-y low cost) to make the gun better. IF you're going to put on a red dot, get a 5" barrel - that's plenty accurate, and the only real reason for having a longer barrel is to increase the distance between the front and rear sight. You're not using the sights so it'll just make the gun front heavy.

Both the S&W 41 and the High Standard (especially the Victor version) are conpetition grade pistols. In fact, the High Standard is the ONLY American made pistol to win in an Olympics competition.

Again, if you're going with a red dot, skip the heavier barrel, you don't need it.

All the best,
Rob
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