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Old September 1, 2008, 07:19 PM   #1
Socrates
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CZ 52: worth buying? What's a good price?

Hi
Any CZ 52 owners out there? This seems to be a poor persons Dillon 9 X 25. The round is a powerhouse. Comments shooting suggestions???
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Old September 1, 2008, 07:59 PM   #2
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Supposedly it's like shooting a 2x4 but I've never shot one so I can't attest to it.
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Old September 1, 2008, 08:24 PM   #3
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The trigger is not impressive but can be worked over by all accounts. I haven't done anything to mine.

Penetration is impressive with FMJ ammunition, but there's not a lot in the way of expanding ammunition for the caliber.

Sights are small, the decockers sometimes act as a second trigger and if you dryfire the firing pin will break.

What's the appeal? Accuracy is good and then there's price. I bought mine (an all steel handgun) for less than $130 and at the time I bought it, Chinese manufactured ammunition in 7.62x25 was under 6.5 cents a round shipped. That's a lot of blasting for very little money...
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Old September 1, 2008, 08:29 PM   #4
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Finally I can offer some advise to Socrates.
It's the best $125 I have ever spent. It's a great range toy. The round is AWESOME. The factory sights suck, and good ones can be machined on(they say Baby Eagles work well)

They do need to be dehorned, as the trigger guard can wear away at the finger(YMMV)(it doesn't bother me)

The ammo that I have been finding is corrosive, but I just clean the gun well. It's been running $9 for 80 rounds.
7.62x25 is a powerhouse. It's loud, and throws a helluva fireball.

I find it to be very accurate at 25yds. Accuracy does fall victim to the sights tho.
One of the largest parts suppliers(makarov.com) has closed shop, but parts are still plenty available. JG's has the armorers kit for $180

Takedown is a cinch, There are quite a few aftermarket grips available that really jazz these ugly-ducks up. I wish I could make mine a little safer to carry, so because it's not, it is a range/home gun.

Seems that like everything else tho, prices are slowly on the climb. Get them while ya can.
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Old September 1, 2008, 08:45 PM   #5
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The grip is very strange and tends to make people shoot low, there is no external slide release so you have to slingshot it, and it has a heel mag release.

It's about as loud as a .357, and the fireball is very impressive.

It's a lot of fun to shoot if you can get past the ergonomics.
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Old September 1, 2008, 08:52 PM   #6
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Of the 5 gun forums that I am a member of, I have read owner's accounts of something going wrong or breaking on the cz 52 on each and every forum.

On mine own cz 52 (which I paid too much for), the take down latch/slide lock latch pin walks out during firing. Because of this, I have never been able to get a good range session out of it. It walks out after just a few rounds. I brought a hammer with me to the range to hammer it back in. I didn't think there was anything major, but as you can guess, I cut the range time short because of that.

I'm going to put some Loctite on it and see if that is a simple cure.

From what little firing I did with it, I can tell you the trigger is horrible. It is definitely the kind that you have to get used to, as in being a part of the Czech military when it was issued and trained on it. It is very long and "rough" feeling. I'm no champion shooter, but my groups don't look like a shotgun pattern at 7 - 10 yds usually with other pistols and revolvers. It did with the cz 52.

I am a collector of military arms, so the cz 52 is a must own, and even with my slight negative experience so far, I still plan to keep it for the collection.

Everyone seems to be getting theirs for $150 or less. I paid $200 for mine, but it was cosmetically in unissued condition. Other than the walking pin, I found it to be mechanically sound.

During my research, I've found conflicting reports on whether or not it is good to use the hotter loads of 7.62x25 through the cz 52. Some say it is perfectly fine because of the stout roller lock system, while others say not to shoot the 7.62x25 that was designed for SMGs through it. Czech surplus (the type it was designed for) itself is hot, and Bulgarian is even hotter by a slight margin. Because of this, I am with the folks who say it is fine. Note: It is not fine to shoot the hot stuff through TT33 pistols. It also should be common knowledge by now that all surplus combloc ammo is corrosive. Flushing hot water through the weapon is the best way to clean this. Forget about Windex, ammonia content in that product is negligible, so I chalk that up to being a myth (or really the water content of Windex doing the work).
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Old September 1, 2008, 11:10 PM   #7
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Ugh. Hated that thing. Miniscule sights, shot 1' too low, hard recoil, sharp edges, bad trigger. Note the curve on the grip below the trigger guard. Ow.

I'd be more inclined to get a Tokarev next time if I really wanted something in that caliber.
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Old September 2, 2008, 05:56 AM   #8
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I plan to buy one. It is a part of history for my collection. The gun and ammo is very inexpensive. The armorers kit is neat too. I already got the armors kit and lots of ammo...gun is next.
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Old September 2, 2008, 07:46 AM   #9
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I have 2 CZ 52s. I view them as I would a Chevy 350 small block. Most of 'em were two barrel bog motors but what a platform upon which to build! Same for the CZ. With a few tweaks, it's a great gun. I installed Harrington HD firing pin & trigger kits in both of mine and the difference is phenomenal. My next mod is those little sights. They have to go.

So far as HP ammo goes, how about the Wolf stuff? It makes a really big exit hole in wet newspapers and in 2x4s.

I think a lot of these pistols we re-arsenaled before they got here and the people doing it weren't the best with those pins. If you can find an original-issue CZ 52, the pins are solid, at least the ones I've seen have been. I had a pin that walked out all the time so I replaced it with a little hardened allen screw and a locking nut for less than a dollar. End of problem. You can get those pins to stay still if you're decent with a punch, though. Check out the gun below and look at the little nut & bolt right above the trigger. It works perfectly.



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Old September 2, 2008, 08:09 AM   #10
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http://makarov.com/cz52
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Old September 2, 2008, 08:27 AM   #11
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I had about a year long go at the CZ-52.

One problem I had was with light strikes on the primers with common surplus hardball ammo. Can't remember if at that time it was Romanian or Bulgarian ammo. The only stuff I could get to burn reliably which was fairly common was S&B. I don't recall trying an aftermarket firing pin, but I may have.

Actually, I had two of these guns. One I equipped with one of Makarov.com's 9mm Largo barrels. This was when all that surplus Spanish ammo was plentiful in that caliber. Reliability was pretty good.

Both guns had problems with the slide locking to the rear.

One wouldn't do it after the last shot, giving me the embarassing experience of taking another shot only to have the gun click.

The other one would ABSOLUTELY lock open after the last shot. And then it would refuse to release after I inserted a new magazine and tried to chamber another round. Pulling the slide slightly to the rear and then letting go did nothing. I had to insert a flat tip between the slide and the lever bar above the grip and twist to close the slide.

Again, I wasn't ready to give up. I equipped that one with one of Makarov.com's thumb slide releases and attempted to fit it's slide release to the other pistol. It was a less than satisfactory set-up.

I even had a Falco shoulder rig and walnut grip panels for the guns (No, not the two gun rig--what am I? Some kind of a nut?). I really wanted to like that design.

Other concerns. The trigger was as bad as others here describe them. Indeed, mine both had fairly noticeable trigger slap. It was distracting.

The flash and blast of the gun are as impressive as any .44 Magnum, but that gets a bit old after awhile too.

Finally, I realized the gun would never be ideal as a defense or carry gun for a couple of reasons. One was that I had two examples of them and I could not get either of them 100% reliable. The other was overpenetration. Unless I wanted to feed them expensive, hard to find hollowpoints, I was going to have to use FMJ pills that would likely overpenetrate the target and hit some little old lady standing 100 meters downrange. And unless the bullet hit bone, the heart, or the head, it probably wasn't going to incapacitate an attacker as quickly as I'd prefer.

Of course, seeing the neat pictures above has rekindled some of my interest. Men are visually oriented creatures and that gun attracts the eye.

My plan, had the guns worked better, was to matte chrome the grip frame and Black-T the slide and barrel.
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Old September 2, 2008, 08:58 AM   #12
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I own a CZ-52 because I find the roller locking action of historical interest and because I can't own an MG42.I find it irritating to shoot because of lousy trigger,poor sights,poor grip,and a safety that insists on engaging during a string of fire.I do like the round,however,so I also bought a Norinco Type 54-1 Tokarev and I have had zero problems with it.It is reasonably accurate.Great flash/blast for range fun.I stick to S&B ammo.I tried some South African stuff and it was really bad.I wouldn't go near the corrosive combloc ammo for SMG's.
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Old September 3, 2008, 09:45 AM   #13
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To Citizen Carrier....

About CZ 52 light hammer strikes:

Note: It really isn't the gun's striking the primer ultra-lightly, it's the lousy surplus ammo's fault. CZ 52s have a pretty stiff hammer action as made. Anyway....

The hammer spring is a long, thin coil spring inside of the grip area. To get rid of the too-light-strike-on-the-concrete-primer issue, I took out the spring, put a tiny washer on the spring's guide pin (rod?) and then put the spring back in. The little washer/spacer fixed everything. It took me all of 2 minutes to do & I think the washer cost me four cents, maybe six.

About HP ammo being too costly:

$19.29/box for new Wolf HPs isn't too bad of a price for SD ammo. I know that that's all there is out there but, IMO, these are enough. I've shot them into wet newspapers, a stack of screwed together 2x4s, a treated 6x6, and a thick, old oak beam. They are destructive, big time.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...976&t=11082005

Make it worth my while and I'll sell you a mechanically tweaked CZ 52 with some real sights on it. These are monster powerful, extremely accurate guns if one gives 'em a bare minimum of TLC. I'd take a CZ 52 over a 1911 any day, without hesitation. I have 2 of them and both of them work 100% flawlessly now. One has about $250 in it, the other, the chromed one, about $300 (it cost more originally.) They'll produce two handed, unsupported, standing, fairly rapidly fired 6" groups at 100 yards every time. Take your time and you can hit a 16 oz. soda bottle from the same 100 yds. with every shot. The finished pistol will probably be more accurate than the shooter holding it. It is with me.

Addendum about the slide not staying back after last round:

Lots of folks blame the gun for stuff when the magazines are the real culprit. If they are the correct shape on top, the gun works like it should. Also, the empty gun slide lock lever's pin is usually loose. Replace w/nut and bolt. Problem solved.

Someone once commented negatively about my taking the time to do all of this stuff to a lowly CZ 52. I spent less than 90 minutes' total time and $550 and now have two screaming pistols. No one ever thinks twice about a 10/22-AR 15-1911-etc build that costs way more.
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Old September 3, 2008, 12:59 PM   #14
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And...

Harrington Products, the manufacturer of hardened rollers, firing pins and other accessories, is back in business.

http://harringtonproducts.com/

Ben
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Old September 3, 2008, 04:25 PM   #15
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I love the 7.62x25 round...but just not in the cz52 I picked up a Polish Tok a few months ago and I think I am spoiled now. I went shooting with a buddy from work who brought his CZ52 along...what a dissapointment, bad grip and sights. I will take a tokarev ANY day over a cz52.
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Old September 3, 2008, 11:27 PM   #16
Socrates
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Which Tokarov, and, why?
Price?

What about this deal?
Budsgunshop.com super price 325.00 delivered

Used Made In West Germany Sig P6/225 9mm

Single Stack 9mm

Two Mags

Hard Blue Case

How do these three compare???
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Old September 4, 2008, 12:29 AM   #17
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Norinco 54-1!

I have a Norinco 54-1 (their TT33 version) and have found it to be accurate, reliable and well made.

Online, I got it unfired, in the original box, with the original papers for $223. I always see them for cheap in barely used condition. When Norinco tried to sell them here about 15 years ago, the 7.62 ammo was largely unavailable. So, they didn't sell. And they've been sitting around, still largely unused, gathering dust. For that price, I'd rather have an unused Norinco than have an eastern European TT33 that has maybe had decades of service use. A Norinco 213 (same thing but 9 MM) is also a great gun for the price.

About the Sig: For that price, you can get a Tok and 1224 rounds of Romanian 7.62x25. I think the Tok is thinner than the Sig, by the way.
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Old September 4, 2008, 06:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
What about this deal?
Budsgunshop.com super price 325.00 delivered

Used Made In West Germany Sig P6/225 9mm

Single Stack 9mm

Two Mags

Hard Blue Case
I buy a lot of guns thru Buds, but in this case I went with Summitgunbroker.com.
Mark hand picks his gun if you request it(Bud's can'/won't) His prices were lower or the same, last time I checked.

These are probably one of the best, If not the Best deal going right now.
The guns are normally in great shape(mine was 98% or better), and they are like any other Sig, reliable and accurate.
Mine was made 3/81, and feeds all type of ammo. I have yet to have 1 FTF, so I am not going to mess with having the feed ramp re-ground.

If ya manage to get a gun newer than 1989, you will have the new style feed ramp. One thing is for sure tho, the guys at Buds have no say in the matter. Plus Mark(at Summit) is one heck of a guy, VERY knowledgeable, and likes to talk. He's not just in it for the money. He really likes his job. And, when he says he will hand pick ya a gun, he does exactly that.
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Old September 4, 2008, 04:32 PM   #19
wnycollector
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Polish toks $280 from here http://www.newphillysports.com/PolishTok.html

The fit and finish on my polish Tok is outstanding. With S&B or privi/wolf its like a shooting laser out to 40 yards!

I own SIG P6. Its a very reliable and accurate pistol. As for comparing it to a tok...thats a tough one. If I was in a tough situation and had to choose between the two I would grab the tok, mainly due to its better long range accuracy.

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Old September 4, 2008, 09:23 PM   #20
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While both are surplus service weapons, I couldn't compare any SIG to a Tokarev. This isn't to say Toks are bad guns, they are not. They are just crude and utilitarian to the max, while a SIG is a...well SIG even on a service gun.

I don't know what you intend to use it for, but I wouldn't get the P6/P225 for carry as it is kind of obsolete in terms of what you can get in capacity (8 rnds of 9mm Luger). Now, for a fun shooting gun and a piece of history to collect, I say go for it as this is the only time you'll ever get a SIG for about $300 and change.

Then again, I think now is the time to get a Tokarev while there are still some to be had. I don't have any of the newly imported neutered Eastern European surplus, but I do have a Vietnam bringback M20 (Chinese). While crude like I said, there is still something kind of "nice" about it.
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Old September 4, 2008, 11:36 PM   #21
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First recommendation. Buy an unissued model.

Second recommendation. Stop reading CZ-52 negative comments made by others. They more than likely bought the cheapest one they could find that more than likely was not lovingly cared for like a fine tool should be. Kind of like the bad rap 1911's had after WWII when there was alot of abused surplus crap slapped together.

UNISSUED!!! If you have never seen one they look like they were made yesterday...no dots on slide, no arsenal stamps randomly stamped everywhere, matching serial numbers on slide, barrel and frame. Tight slide/frame alignment, blued pristine polygonal rifled barrel and internal parts, shiny round rollers, pins all edged, springs that look and act like they just came from Wolf's. The difference is maybe $40.00 and the hunting but you'll probably have a pistol that you're very passionate about and will not feel the need to ever sell it.

Then shoot new non-corrosive primed ammo, or not but then dont complain that the ComBloc crap dosent fire or when it does it blows your pistol to pieces.

I have been shooting an unissued 53 for about a year and because of others posts I keep expecting something negative to happen.
My pistol is as tight and accurate as any pistol I have ever shot.

1. Trigger, single action snap, no slop, just pop, pop, pop.
2. Sights are small and the grip is skinny wide and there's no slide release and I cannot thumb cock the gun without altering my grip and the mag only holds eight, but it just is what it is. The only real legit issue is that the sights are very small but you learn to more or less point with the nose of the gun.

Anyway not meant as a flame just one more users experience to add to the pile.
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Old September 5, 2008, 02:03 AM   #22
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For what it's worth, I bought both of my CZs from Aim Surplus.

I tried probably 4 or 5 different magazines on the one that wouldn't lock open after the final shot. It wasn't the magazines, as none of them would reliably do it in that gun and all of them would reliably do it in the other gun.

Except that the other gun would lock open and stay locked open until I used a flat tip to unlock it.

That being said, if I had a chance to buy an unissued one today...I might take the gamble.
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Old September 5, 2008, 03:05 PM   #23
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I too, went with a Tokarev when I was hankering for something in the 7.62x25 round. I love how it feels in the hand and how it shoots. Its a really fun gun. Ive heard mixed truths about the CZ-52 being 'unbreakable' and think the Tok is a stronger gun. Someone out there did tests Im sure you can look up. Either way you cant go wrong with this caliber. Its plenty fun and squirting water and WD40 through the barrel before you clean it is no big deal.
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Old September 5, 2008, 03:41 PM   #24
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Hmm...an Astra 900 fills the niche for me.

Regards,

Walt
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