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Old August 30, 2008, 02:04 PM   #101
dabigguns357
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Sorry David you missed my thread,i was being a smart butt.In my post i was trying to say you shouldn't have to give a warning,because when he broke in he didn't give a warning,and i'm not going to stand there and give the bad guy a cold beer.As far as i'm concerned he is armed and dangerous and thats all there is to it.As far as shooting If it's the middle of the day then i know my family is not there(good)if it's the middle of the night then i still know where my family is.I can monitor everything from my bedroom either by tv or by baby monitores in my kids room upstairs.Oh and i stand behind my decision to shoot if someone breaks in to my house in the middle of the night,they are not there for just my toaster and i sure aint goin to ask,again i'm not a command or rambo but hey they gave me no choice when they broke in.
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Old August 30, 2008, 04:01 PM   #102
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I would Say " STOP " that's all , as others have stated any other words or phrases may come back to bite you in the rear.. See " Talking to the Police "
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53586646&hl=en

Some others have said I would not want to shot or harm in any way [ para phasing ] taking my stuff.. How would you react to this hypothetically scenario?
I walk up to your front Door broad daylight and ask you for your Gun collection , chances are you will say something to the effect of No ; most likely in a more colorfully language. I then just walk by you in to your home using no force and start to pick up your guns in a non threating manner , what will you do after all it is JUST property ?

Last edited by emcs.security; August 30, 2008 at 05:29 PM.
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Old August 30, 2008, 04:36 PM   #103
Brian Pfleuger
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I walk up to your front Door broad daylight and ask you for your Gun collection , chances are you will say something to the effect of No ; most likely in a more colorfully language. I then just walk by you in to your home using no force and start to pick up your guns in a non threating manner , what will you do after all it is JUST property ?
First off, you'd have to be HeMan because you'd be carrying a 300lb safe. Second, I'd call 911, that's why we have it. Third, I'd fight you if I thought I could and you didn't have a weapon. Fourth, I'd take pictures if I could, seriously, if your that casual about it, why can't I be? NOTE HOWEVER: you make one move to load a gun or get violent in ANY way that I consider life threatening and your getting shot.
Property isn't worth killing or dying for, my life and the lives of my family are worth dying for.
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Old August 30, 2008, 05:00 PM   #104
emcs.security
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1. Being this was a hypothetically scenario [just using guns as a example ] I can hypothetically carry a 300 lb safe !!
2. "Second, I'd call 911" that gives me time for a drink of some type and maybe a sandwich!!
3. "Third, I'd fight you if I thought I could " I'll sue you for Assault and Bodily Harm { my word against yours that you invited me into your home}!!
$. "Fourth, I'd take pictures if I could, seriously," What are your pictures going to prove , that I help you move your safe some place[[ see #1 ]]!! ( I may break you camera with my appearance )!!
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Old August 30, 2008, 05:21 PM   #105
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1. Being this was a hypothetically scenario...

....you are free to change it into anything you'd like that I can not win.

I will not kill for property. <<Period. End of Possibilities.>>

If you walk out with my things. I have insurance.
If you sue me. I have insurance.
Police response time in my area is within 5 minutes for something like a burglary in progress. I'll have your image (video from security and hand held camera), I'll have a plate number, car description, I might even follow you.

The sanctity of human life is not a value open to hypothetical what if statements. If you attempt to harm me or mine to degree that threatens our lives I WILL make you stop. Whether that means to the point of your death depends on your reaction to my attempts to make you stop. At that point it's your decision not mine.
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Old August 30, 2008, 05:42 PM   #106
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I'll have your image (video from security and hand held camera), I'll have a plate number, car description, I might even follow you.
Thats a good plan !
(video from security and hand held camera) been covered !!
" I'll have a plate number, car description" stolen car!!
"I might even follow you" You Should have added while on the phone with 911.. This one may be a little harder to over come without some fancy driving and some luck on my part!!
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Old August 30, 2008, 05:47 PM   #107
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Good luck with my stuff. You're alive to enjoy it. I'm done here.
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Old August 30, 2008, 07:05 PM   #108
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75% of the posters on this thread have ignored the original subject and expressed opinions on legal or tactical considerations re: civilian SD warning shots in our country.

The subject of the thread is about foreign country security or guard duty with re: to lethal force policy and warning shot requirements---- WHICH IS NOT RELEVENT TO WARNING SHOTS AS A SD STRATEGY HERE IN THE US.

Wrong thread. You want the warning shots thread, not the bad language theread.
Holy crap, you're right David! Thanks for catching that. Glad you have the embarrassment icon (even has the spelling).

I'm going to bend over and kick myself in the butt.

To get back on track.

Sometimes witnesses are people who are out of sight and can't see what's happening. I'd rather they heard me yelling at Bubba to "don't move", "drop your weapon", "stay away from me", etc. than to hear me swearing at him just before they hear the shots.
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Old August 30, 2008, 07:32 PM   #109
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I apologize for my part in hijacking the thread
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Old August 31, 2008, 12:58 PM   #110
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Human life, even that of some one gone bad is worth more than my stuff, worth even more than the turmoil of "home invasions" (which is different, legally, that what we are discussing), worth more, clearly, than the "taxpayer money" (that's why we have prisons). No one deserves to die because they are a thief, regardless of the reason. After all, most of us are thieves to one degree or another. Ever taken a pen from work, or wasted your companies time on a gun forum? Yes, I know "that's different". It's different because you didn't go somewhere you weren't invited or scare somebody in the process. So where do we draw the line.
I was not talking about "STUFF". I am talking about your life or your family's lives. Is an intruder's life worth more than yours?

I do cherish life. I KNOW that Jesus Christ died for EVERY soul that has ever lived and will ever live on this earth. So, every soul is precious to God. He gave His Son for us all.

But, God also gave us the freedom of choice. He will not make us do what's right. He commands us to, but it's up to us if we do or not.

We all make decisions. And, there are always consequenses to our decisions. Whether good or bad.

You do not know the intent of someone that has invaded your home.

Is your life or your family's lives worth taking a chance to find out?

One thing for sure. If you take a criminal out, he will not do it again. And, maybe he will be an example to others who might be in the same line of "work"!
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Old August 31, 2008, 07:13 PM   #111
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So, I can easily imagine that if I have to tell a perp that he's about to get
shot or if I'm telling an intruder to freeze, get on the ground,
put hands behind his head and don't move, I would interlace a lot of
expletives in between the words that convey actual instructions.
yep , lots of "expletives" (cussing) is the way to go. (see my prior post for examples of the "NY style")

but, look how far off topic this post has gotten!
gotta love it!
tom
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Old August 31, 2008, 07:34 PM   #112
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Human life, even that of some one gone bad is worth more than my stuff, worth even more than the turmoil of "home invasions" (which is different, legally, that what we are discussing), worth more, clearly, than the "taxpayer money" (that's why we have prisons). No one deserves to die because they are a thief, regardless of the reason. After all, most of us are thieves to one degree or another. Ever taken a pen from work, or wasted your companies time on a gun forum? Yes, I know "that's different". It's different because you didn't go somewhere you weren't invited or scare somebody in the process. So where do we draw the line.
I think you've missed the point, Peezakilla. If someone invaded your home, you'd be afraid for your familys' lives. Not whether your TV and DVD player were at risk.

An old WWII veteran once said, during a tv interview, that he didn't fight his way through France and witness the death of many a friend so his government could mandate that he submitt to robbery because it considered a criminals rights more important than his.

In other words, Peezaakilla, it's a civil liberties issue, not a property vs. human life issue. My civil liberties were paid for in blood and so were yours. Such a requirement, IMO, amounts to tyranny and oppression, and spits on the graves of those who shed their blood for our freedom.

Should burglary be a capital offense? No. And it's not.

Peezakilla, I'd really like to think you aren't suggesting that a Homeowner who takes a burglar's life out of fear of his own isn't a sentence imposer, nor a self appointed judge and jury. Tell me you aren't.
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Old August 31, 2008, 08:56 PM   #113
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NOTE HOWEVER: you make one move to load a gun or get violent in ANY way that I consider life threatening and your getting shot.
Property isn't worth killing or dying for, my life and the lives of my family are worth dying for.
Quote:
If he makes an aggressive move, runs toward me, drops things and reaches in a pocket or points something at me- I shoot. At that point the BG has escalated the confrontation to a physical one, not me.

Quote:
If he drops everything and heads my way, now he probably gets shot- especially if he's got a weapon.
Three quotes from my previous posts in this thread. I don't think I'm being ambiguous.
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Old August 31, 2008, 10:46 PM   #114
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Get off the "X", present and yell STOP!!! if they don't comply, stop them.
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Old September 1, 2008, 01:54 AM   #115
Nnobby45
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Three quotes from my previous posts in this thread. I don't think I'm being ambiguous.
Doesn't sound like you and I are that far apart on the issue. Neither of us wants to take a human life. And neither of us would just over property.

My point is that an intruder in my home has gone far beyond just being a threat to my property.

And there's still the civil liberties issue that only an oppressive government would violate by considering a criminal's rights more important than my own which, as already stated, have been paid for and, last I checked, still being paid for in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Old September 1, 2008, 04:15 PM   #116
David Armstrong
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In my post i was trying to say you shouldn't have to give a warning,because when he broke in he didn't give a warning,and i'm not going to stand there and give the bad guy a cold beer.
Again, while a cold beer might be nice, it has much more limited an application to the issue being discussed. And nobody has said you have to give a warning, only that it is a good idea to do so under certain circumstances.
Quote:
As far as i'm concerned he is armed and dangerous and thats all there is to it.
If you think he is armed and dangerous, why start a gunfight if yo don't have to?
Quote:
As far as shooting If it's the middle of the day then i know my family is not there(good)if it's the middle of the night then i still know where my family is.
But you don't know where all the bullets are going.
Quote:
Oh and i stand behind my decision to shoot if someone breaks in to my house in the middle of the night,they are not there for just my toaster and i sure aint goin to ask,
No matter how many times you say it it doesn't change the facts. Most breaks ins are just that, break ins, and the perp has no desire to physically harm anyone.
Quote:
hey they gave me no choice when they broke in.
Then you are choosing to let the criminal decide what you will do. I prefer to make my decisions based on what I want to do. There is always a choice.
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Old September 1, 2008, 04:22 PM   #117
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You do not know the intent of someone that has invaded your home.
Is your life or your family's lives worth taking a chance to find out?
You are taking the chance either way. You can start with an assumption that this is a normal and typical B&E, where the perp is after property, or you can develop some other idea. But working toward the greatest likelihood is a pretty smart path. As for the lives, why do you think that starting a gunfight will be safer than giving the BG a chance to leave without a fight? It's amazing the number of people here that think just because they are the goodguy that they will always win, and there won't be any ramifications. If he doesn't leave, you can go to guns, but to start with that option closes down any other alternative.
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Old September 1, 2008, 10:05 PM   #118
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We all have to make a personal choice in how we react to this situation.I am sorry but i will not stand by idle while someone ransacks my home in the middle of the night or day.Warning or no warning i'll not clammer in the corner and hope for the best.

If what you say is true David then we should all give up our guns and flashlights,or better yet why even have locks on our doors or window shades.Its called privacy and i for one love mine.Enough of the poor pitiful thief speech.If will make you happy then i'll warn em when i cock the hammer back on my 357.

Sorry but in the last 8 month i've had both my cars broken into 4 times,and my house was broken into as well.In all this i've had to replace my rag top,and cd player in my jeep along with a complete passanger side window motor kit for my other car.In my house i've had to replace window screens and a back room window, and 2 door locks.I have lost my sympothy for the criminal element and no they don't deserve any kind WARNING.Oh let me go on the record and say yes i'm moving just as soon as my transfer comes through.
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Old September 2, 2008, 01:03 PM   #119
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I am sorry but i will not stand by idle while someone ransacks my home in the middle of the night or day.
Good. Of course, nobody has suggested that you do that. But there are a lot of options between "shoot him right there" and "stand by idle."
Quote:
Warning or no warning i'll not clammer in the corner and hope for the best.
Again, I see no place where such an idea has even been suggested.
Quote:
If what you say is true David then we should all give up our guns and flashlights,or better yet why even have locks on our doors or window shades.Its called privacy and i for one love mine.
You're being silly. Privacy is nice and is well-deserved. But deciding that the best way to preserve that privacy is to kill someone is a bit over the top, IMO. The guns and flashlights certainly have a place. So does the concept of a warning.
Quote:
Enough of the poor pitiful thief speech.
Again you argue a point that has not been made, at least by me. I feel no sympathy for the thief. I do feel sympathy for the good citizen. What seems to be getting lost is that frequently the best thing for that good citizen is to minimize loss of resources. Getting into a gunfight does not meet that goal. You can always escalate if the warninig is not sufficient. However, if you start by shooting, it is awfully hard to go back.
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Old September 2, 2008, 01:05 PM   #120
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What seems to be getting lost is that frequently the best thing for that good citizen is to minimize loss of resources. Getting into a gunfight does not meet that goal. You can always escalate if the warninig is not sufficient. However, if you start by shooting, it is awfully hard to go back.
Bingo! +1
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Old September 2, 2008, 03:31 PM   #121
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It seems to me that we are about to wade in water we don't want to swim in.Lets just agree to disagree,shake hands and find a more intresting thread to post about like hunting or fishing.
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Old September 2, 2008, 08:16 PM   #122
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It seems to me that we are about to wade in water we don't want to swim in.
I don't mind swimming when I think it necessary, and people advocating killing other people when there is no need is always worth a swim, IMO.
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Old September 3, 2008, 10:40 AM   #123
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David, honestly, Your facts fly in the face of what has become the trend. Could your facts be some what dated??
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Old September 3, 2008, 10:43 AM   #124
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Have your way with the thread. I don't care.

The original question has long been answered.
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Old September 3, 2008, 11:51 AM   #125
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The original question has long been answered.
Yep, and that's more than enough reason to put this one to bed. Say goodnight, Gracie.

Closed.
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