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Old August 31, 2008, 05:42 PM   #51
The Bishop
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For home defense - A shotgun

Are you planning on walking the streets during a riot or natural disaster ? If so, yea go with any rifle, pistol, or gun you can get your hands on.

However, for home defense, I would go with a pistol or 12 Ga.shotgun with 00buck.

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Old August 31, 2008, 06:18 PM   #52
Deaf Smith
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It must load on Sunday and shoot all week. Be reliable enough to go through that whole week without a hickup. Shoots strait and hits hard as far as I can reliably hit. Light and short. And afford lots of practice (cause skill is number one in my book.)

Right now my two Bushie ARs fill the bill. Just spent this morining sighting in one (BUIS was on, but scope not) and it shoot wonderfully. The other one, with Ashly rear sight, was already dead on at 200 yards and has my 'no touchie' stamp on it, meaning it works right and leave it alone!

Sure there are others that will do the same. A good AK, good FAL (I'd like to get a DSA para model myself), SOCOM M1A, and others but the AR is what I have and it does quite fine.

See I don't split hairs and worry over charts and graphs that give one a .002 percent better this or better that. My Bushies are fine, just like alot of other good guns out there.
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Old September 1, 2008, 04:32 PM   #53
David Armstrong
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And as so often happens you assume that I have not trained with my rifle.
Nope, never siad that. I said you need formal tactical training. That you consider the two the same is part of the problem, IMO.
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You assume just because I want the best tool for the job, that I cannot make due with what I have available and thats just rediculous.
As we've discussed before, if you'd talk about what was said instead of making things up the discussion would go much smoother.
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There is no professional training David that will allow you to shoot as fast and accurate a follow up shot with a 308 as a 223. Just as if your needs lean toward penetration no training will make a 223 punch holes like a 308.
Again, the fact that you would discuss those in the same context as training indicates how much you need the training.
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Have it already.
You need to make up your mind. The last discussion revolved around the fact that you had had no formal training and why you thought you didn't need any because you'd read some books and watched some videos.
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It can limit your options though.
It changes your options. Whether that is a limit for you, well, you're the only one who can decide that.
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I'll never understand how a "small advantage" isn't advantagous.
As Jermtheory said, "...its a trade off. your "smallest of advantage" comes with other disadvantages."
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Old September 1, 2008, 04:34 PM   #54
threegun
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See I don't split hairs and worry over charts and graphs that give one a .002 percent better this or better that.
I wish I could just relax, sit back, and not worry about it LOL. Not so much charts and graph as potential needs vs rifle/caliber attributes.
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Old September 1, 2008, 04:41 PM   #55
shaman
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to me, weighin in at around 290, shooting the ar is about like going at it with a 1022.



id LOVE to do some formal training, but with my size id be picked as the target!!!!
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Old September 1, 2008, 05:34 PM   #56
threegun
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Nope, never said that. I said you need formal tactical training. That you consider the two the same is part of the problem, IMO.
Thank god its just your opinion. I was beginning to think that I can't do the very same things being taught in "formal training" since I learned them a different way than you.

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You need to make up your mind. The last discussion revolved around the fact that you had had no formal training and why you thought you didn't need any because you'd read some books and watched some videos.
Didn't say formal training. As I have stated numerous times I use the same tactics as taught to you and others by the pros. I run the same drills. Only I had to do it myself. I'm quite positive that there isn't anything you can do that I haven't done or cannot do. You just paid a lot more and have a nice piece of paper to show for it. Are you better? We'll never know. My money is on me though.

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your "smallest of advantage" comes with other disadvantages.
And the reason for my post. I'm looking for educated input to assist me with this very issue. Instead you give assumptions and sarcasm. I understand that you have been conditioned to make due with what you have and that the tool isn't the key but the training is........I agree with a twist......I want the tool that can excell in the most of my expected scenarios. Since I get to prepare and train in advance.

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It changes your options. Whether that is a limit for you, well, you're the only one who can decide that.
Given my expected uses the 10/22 will limit the options of whoever selects it.
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Old September 1, 2008, 05:54 PM   #57
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A battle with Coyote ?
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Old September 1, 2008, 11:14 PM   #58
NMWPerk
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Hmmmm

Well, my current "battle rifle" is my Beretta CX4 Storm...in 9mm.

The way I look at it presently (and anyone is welcome to try and change my mind with some good advice) I am going primarily for defense and even a
9mm Carbine will convince people to keep their heads down. Should the worst happen (whatever the "worst" might be) I don't see myself sitting still for too long unless there is no other choice. My goal would be to get into a rural, less populated area (not hard in northern/western Maine) and finding a place for me and mine to camp out.

Since I travel a lot, I have one pistol/rifle for transit to home and another for moving from home to wherever.

To get home I have my Beretta Cougar 8040 and a Marlin 30-30 Lever action. Once I get home (after a quick trip to a secure location that is) I have my Glock 22 and some gear for wearing it as well as several Magazines to get to a safe place. As mentioned, my CX4 will be joining me as well.

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Old September 2, 2008, 03:35 AM   #59
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The AR-15 (M4 variant) is a great weapon. Ammo is plentiful, rate of fire is good, ease of use, alot of accessories and spare parts, and is an easy rifle to maintain. The only drawbacks in my book to the round, is it certain conditions, and at distance, it can tend to be a bit under powered. Not a bad rifle to have in capable hands by any means.

I like the AK for the same reasons, plus it has more punch, and you can treat it like an ex-wife and it will still shoot. In a serious situation where weapon maintenance might not happen for extended periods of time, you can't go wrong with the AK. You can drop that baby in the swamp, drain the barrel and come out fighting. It can take real word abuses that would cause other rifles to malfunction.

As far as inside 50 yards or closer, if I had the choice I would definitely grab a "combat" shotgun. Nothing is more effective, or easier to use, especially in conditions where careful, scoped aiming may not be an option. The short barreled shotty is probably my first grab in home invasion situation. There are semi-auto "drum" fed models, short barreled, pistol gripped, and will hold a box of alternating slug, 00, or whatever you want to feed it. Hard to go wrong there.
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Old September 2, 2008, 07:35 AM   #60
threegun
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It seems that my worry over penetration may be unwarranted. Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna get the AR in 308 anyway but it won't replace my 223's as my go to unless its followups are not to far off.

I appreciate the discussion.
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Old September 2, 2008, 09:11 AM   #61
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I think this one has run its course.

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