Saw & Minimi

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck · June 29, 2008, 01:45 PM

I am curious. Would it be legal to buy one of these two weapons if: 1. They were semi automatic, or, 2. They were bought legally using the ATF tax stamp, assuming I lived in a legal state to own full auto.

I hope someone can answer this question.

VUPDblue · June 29, 2008, 02:05 PM

There is a semi minimi out there. They are not cheap, but they are legal. I don't think there are any SAW's or MINIMI's on the registry, but if there happens to be one, it would cost more than your house.

David Hineline · June 29, 2008, 02:09 PM

First problem as to semi automatic, this design fires from the open bolt, ATF considers open bolt semi autos are regulated the same as machineguns, so any manuf. who wanted to put out a semi auto version would have to do it from a complete new design not being able to use std. available parts.

Second problem the guns are imported FN Belgium. Imported machineguns were banned from citizens in 1968 so not gonna find an original gun in country that old.

Up till 1986 one of the guns would have to been imported, then receiver destroyed with the receiver being manuf. by a US company then be re-sold to be transferable to citizens as US manuf. machineguns was 1986.

So you are looking for the unobtainable, if one or two did exists I would say $150,000 for one would not be out of line.

The .223 mini gun used in the movie predator is in private hands and each time it sells, the price goes up, I believe the last time it was over $200,000 mark.

I reccomend you first move to a NFA friendly state and take baby steps into something affordable in the $15,000 range or lower rather than searching for the holy grail.

VUPDblue · June 29, 2008, 02:49 PM

Desert Ordnance lists a semi auto only SAW on their website. I've seen these guns for sale before on different websites, mostly forums, along with semi only M60's. I don't really know what the point of one of those would be, but they run in the $6k range IIRC. Desert Ordnance doesn't list a price for a new one, they only list "call for price".

B. Lahey · June 29, 2008, 04:28 PM

Stop by Midwest Gun and Range in Elkhart, IN. They have an M249 for rent and they don't even make you link your own belts.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck · June 29, 2008, 11:43 PM

Well Ican just hop the river to own one legally. I live in Iowa and Nebraska laws say that they're legal so... hehe.

Recon7 · June 29, 2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

it would cost more than your house.

Quote:

they run in the $6k range

I know housing prices have slid a little since my refi, but c'mon.

B. Lahey · June 30, 2008, 12:05 AM

He was talking about a full-auto, transferable M249. If there is one out there it would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe more.

VUPDblue · June 30, 2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

I know housing prices have slid a little since my refi, but c'mon.

That's one of them thar creeaytive ritin' quotes!

What I actually said was:

Quote:

I don't think there are any SAW's or MINIMI's on the registry, but if there happens to be one, it would cost more than your house.

By "on the registry" I meant on the registry of transferrable automatic weapons. And if there was one, it would be priced according to David Hineline's prediction, which would make it more than a lot of people's homes.

Legion2600 · June 30, 2008, 05:53 PM

Wasn't FN here gonna make a semi 249? Around 5-6k I think.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck · July 1, 2008, 08:32 AM

I hope they do, I'd settle for semi auto in one of those.

20nickels · August 22, 2008, 10:16 PM

The Mosinfreak may well be correct I live in Nebraska and have seen the Saw alongside other MG's at the shows here. I just assumed it was the real deal and never asked.

johnwilliamson062 · August 22, 2008, 10:33 PM

Keep in mind State Department can transfer/issue a machinegun to a private citizen and they sometimes do (Black Water). I would not be at all surprised if some of the State Department contractors show up to MG shoots with toys.

T. O'Heir · August 22, 2008, 11:48 PM

Saw a real, legal, M249 on-line somewhere, a couple of years back. $250 grand US, as I recall.

guntotin_fool · August 23, 2008, 12:03 AM

If you get the right manufacturers license or the right dealers license and a M240G is about $4400 dollars factory direct. I looked at the paperwork on one just last week. three barrels, hard case, linker. bi pod included, the tripod was several hundred more. If you have a few thousand dollars to spend on the apps process and you jump thru the hoops, its possible to get them... even "post ban" guns, because cops and private companies and other suitably legit people have to have access to new guns for testing, training, selling, etc. This one was being delivered to a machine shop which was developing a new QD mount system for them.

johnwilliamson062 · August 23, 2008, 11:37 AM

ATFE really likes it if you take advantage of the dealer/supplier license. I thought about doing it to be able to work on designing some guns, and a few people made it very obvious to me that if I did not pursue it seriously as a business the ATF would bend me over my workbench.

DocDizz · August 23, 2008, 06:05 PM

I must say, I don't know what all the hype about the SAW is. I have fired a few, full auto, it wasn't really too much special. Though it seemed to average about 5-6 FTF per every 200 round drum.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck · August 24, 2008, 01:42 PM

ftf's happen and you can always chamber a new round.

longrange08 · August 29, 2008, 08:32 PM

I Carried A Saw For A Long Time If You Get 5 Ftf Out Of A 200 Round Drum There Is Something Wrong With Your Saw

Rant Casey · August 29, 2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

I Carried A Saw For A Long Time If You Get 5 Ftf Out Of A 200 Round Drum There Is Something Wrong With Your Saw

Unless of course someone was just firing blanks out of it prior

Quote:

ftf's happen and you can always chamber a new round.

So do sucking chest wounds. A ftf is fine on the range, but not in combat.

jonutarr · August 30, 2008, 02:45 AM

After seeing videos from the Oklahoma gun show, I thought you Yanks could own full auto's or is this only in in certain states?

BTW I'm in the Australian army and we use the Minimi, it's great gun

kozak6 · August 30, 2008, 06:45 AM

Yes, one can only own a machinegun in certain states.

And in these states, an ordinary civilian can only own a machinegun registered before May 19, 1986.

This has fixed the supply, and prices have soared astronomically.

June 29, 2008, 01:45 PM	#1
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa Posts: 568	Saw & Minimi I am curious. Would it be legal to buy one of these two weapons if: 1. They were semi automatic, or, 2. They were bought legally using the ATF tax stamp, assuming I lived in a legal state to own full auto. I hope someone can answer this question. __________________ The Best Revenge is to Live Happily. K31 / Mosin Nagant M1944 / Turkish M1938 / Sagave M110 / Marlin Model 80 / Stevens Model 77F / Astra A-90 / Glock 22 Gen 4

June 29, 2008, 02:05 PM	#2
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,978	There is a semi minimi out there. They are not cheap, but they are legal. I don't think there are any SAW's or MINIMI's on the registry, but if there happens to be one, it would cost more than your house. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

June 29, 2008, 02:09 PM	#3
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 700	Two problems First problem as to semi automatic, this design fires from the open bolt, ATF considers open bolt semi autos are regulated the same as machineguns, so any manuf. who wanted to put out a semi auto version would have to do it from a complete new design not being able to use std. available parts. Second problem the guns are imported FN Belgium. Imported machineguns were banned from citizens in 1968 so not gonna find an original gun in country that old. Up till 1986 one of the guns would have to been imported, then receiver destroyed with the receiver being manuf. by a US company then be re-sold to be transferable to citizens as US manuf. machineguns was 1986. So you are looking for the unobtainable, if one or two did exists I would say $150,000 for one would not be out of line. The .223 mini gun used in the movie predator is in private hands and each time it sells, the price goes up, I believe the last time it was over $200,000 mark. I reccomend you first move to a NFA friendly state and take baby steps into something affordable in the $15,000 range or lower rather than searching for the holy grail.

June 29, 2008, 02:49 PM	#4
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,978	Desert Ordnance lists a semi auto only SAW on their website. I've seen these guns for sale before on different websites, mostly forums, along with semi only M60's. I don't really know what the point of one of those would be, but they run in the $6k range IIRC. Desert Ordnance doesn't list a price for a new one, they only list "call for price". __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

June 29, 2008, 11:43 PM	#6
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa Posts: 568	Well Ican just hop the river to own one legally. I live in Iowa and Nebraska laws say that they're legal so... hehe. __________________ The Best Revenge is to Live Happily. K31 / Mosin Nagant M1944 / Turkish M1938 / Sagave M110 / Marlin Model 80 / Stevens Model 77F / Astra A-90 / Glock 22 Gen 4

June 29, 2008, 04:28 PM	#5
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,811	Stop by Midwest Gun and Range in Elkhart, IN. They have an M249 for rent and they don't even make you link your own belts.

June 30, 2008, 12:05 AM	#8
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,811	He was talking about a full-auto, transferable M249. If there is one out there it would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe more.

June 30, 2008, 05:53 PM	#10
Legion2600 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 108	Wasn't FN here gonna make a semi 249? Around 5-6k I think.

July 1, 2008, 08:32 AM	#11
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa Posts: 568	I hope they do, I'd settle for semi auto in one of those. __________________ The Best Revenge is to Live Happily. K31 / Mosin Nagant M1944 / Turkish M1938 / Sagave M110 / Marlin Model 80 / Stevens Model 77F / Astra A-90 / Glock 22 Gen 4

August 22, 2008, 10:16 PM	#12
20nickels Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 274	The Mosinfreak may well be correct I live in Nebraska and have seen the Saw alongside other MG's at the shows here. I just assumed it was the real deal and never asked.

August 22, 2008, 10:33 PM	#13
johnwilliamson062 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 6,108	Keep in mind State Department can transfer/issue a machinegun to a private citizen and they sometimes do (Black Water). I would not be at all surprised if some of the State Department contractors show up to MG shoots with toys. __________________ $0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. Of course, you could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation I was feeling pretty good, then I looked around and realized I am not swimming or on fire.

August 22, 2008, 11:48 PM	#14
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,099	Saw a real, legal, M249 on-line somewhere, a couple of years back. $250 grand US, as I recall. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 23, 2008, 12:03 AM	#15
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Posts: 1,446	If you get the right manufacturers license or the right dealers license and a M240G is about $4400 dollars factory direct. I looked at the paperwork on one just last week. three barrels, hard case, linker. bi pod included, the tripod was several hundred more. If you have a few thousand dollars to spend on the apps process and you jump thru the hoops, its possible to get them... even "post ban" guns, because cops and private companies and other suitably legit people have to have access to new guns for testing, training, selling, etc. This one was being delivered to a machine shop which was developing a new QD mount system for them.

August 23, 2008, 11:37 AM	#16
johnwilliamson062 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 6,108	ATFE really likes it if you take advantage of the dealer/supplier license. I thought about doing it to be able to work on designing some guns, and a few people made it very obvious to me that if I did not pursue it seriously as a business the ATF would bend me over my workbench. __________________ $0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. Of course, you could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation I was feeling pretty good, then I looked around and realized I am not swimming or on fire.

August 23, 2008, 06:05 PM	#17
DocDizz Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Posts: 257	I must say, I don't know what all the hype about the SAW is. I have fired a few, full auto, it wasn't really too much special. Though it seemed to average about 5-6 FTF per every 200 round drum.

August 24, 2008, 01:42 PM	#18
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa Posts: 568	ftf's happen and you can always chamber a new round. __________________ The Best Revenge is to Live Happily. K31 / Mosin Nagant M1944 / Turkish M1938 / Sagave M110 / Marlin Model 80 / Stevens Model 77F / Astra A-90 / Glock 22 Gen 4

August 29, 2008, 08:32 PM	#19
longrange08 Member Join Date: May 12, 2007 Location: dayton oh Posts: 47	SAW I Carried A Saw For A Long Time If You Get 5 Ftf Out Of A 200 Round Drum There Is Something Wrong With Your Saw __________________ am i the only one who actually wishes zombies do exist, so one day i can actually justify to my girl the crap i buy

August 30, 2008, 02:45 AM	#21
jonutarr Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: QLD Australia Posts: 112	After seeing videos from the Oklahoma gun show, I thought you Yanks could own full auto's or is this only in in certain states? BTW I'm in the Australian army and we use the Minimi, it's great gun __________________ Reloaded! http://www.youtube.com/user/ccc0mb0IIIIIIbReakeR

August 30, 2008, 06:45 AM	#22
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 2,274	Yes, one can only own a machinegun in certain states. And in these states, an ordinary civilian can only own a machinegun registered before May 19, 1986. This has fixed the supply, and prices have soared astronomically.