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Old July 10, 2008, 06:05 PM   #1
Oquirrh
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Refined colts

Many people shoot '58 rems in .44 and '51 Navies in .36. And they are for sale everywhere. But I seldom see or hear from anyone raving about the 60 Colt Army and 61 Colt Navy .36, which seem to be beautiful firearms and the apex of the cap/ball era.

Why is that?
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Old July 10, 2008, 06:40 PM   #2
Fingers McGee
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Cause there aren't as many out there???? I know the 61 Navy is a rare breed. I looked a long time before I got the pair I use for CAS. And, I know a few people that use 1860 Armies; but the Remmies and 51 Navies are more prevalent.
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Old July 10, 2008, 06:42 PM   #3
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All I can think of is maybe Cowboy Propaganda recognizes certain guns as icons and the rest as obscure variations? I bet the 60 is more popular with CW reenactors and across the line of ML Colts, all I can see is comparable features, so must be something about a certain look. The Rems seem more awkward and perhaps more heavy than the comparable cal. Colts to me, but have some better features that make up for it. If I were looking for one, I would choose the best quality of construction and authenticity over model to a large extent, if comparing some lying on a table for sale. And maybe price.
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Old July 10, 2008, 07:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
All I can think of is maybe Cowboy Propaganda recognizes certain guns as icons and the rest as obscure variations?
IMHO it's the cowboy shooters that have brought the 61 Navies etc. back into being. Gun makers like Uberti pay attention to SASS and if they think it's profitable to make a production run they will. Methinks if not for SASS there wouldn't be any 66 Winchesters or 60 Henry's etc. in abundance, maybe none at all. True, SASS members have driven up the price on a lot of models but because of them there's more models to choose from. Even Merwin and Hulbert are back in production and Remington has licensed USFA to remake the 58.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:30 PM   #5
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The 1860 is my favorite, as well as its cartridge conversions. I particularly like the long Army grip frame.
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Old July 10, 2008, 09:22 PM   #6
Oquirrh
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I've never held a 61 Navy in the flesh -- which, of course, makes me want one bad. I love my '51 even though it can be a PIA, but the 61 series is so graceful.
rem '58s are like the jeeps of cap and ball, they're dependable, ugly and everywhere.

Quote:
Cause there aren't as many out there????
I guess that's a chicken/egg thing. If folks bought them, they'd be out there. I noticed the '61 is much pricer than its equivalent--which must be due to supply and demand... (as if I'm an economist or something).

i never see '51s used and '60s are like hens teeth.
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Old July 11, 2008, 01:11 AM   #7
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Oquirrh, the 1861 Navy is the same grip and frame, cyl. too as the 1851 Navy.
If you prefer the grip of a Colt Navy you would probly get used to a 58 Navy Rem grip in a Euroarms Rev, along with the .44 NMA. I bet you like the Uberti NMA grip better also...Euroarms is jus' a hair thinner.

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Last edited by Smokin_Gun; July 11, 2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Old July 11, 2008, 04:04 AM   #8
Oquirrh
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just the barrel's different?

Quote:
the 1861 Navy is the same grip and frame, cyl. too as the 1851 Navy
That's not worth the premium price. Thanks smokin', you just saved me a couple C-notes.
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Old July 11, 2008, 09:21 AM   #9
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Ok,

I'll bite.

You just named my three favorites! I do prefer the .36, either the '51 or '61 just for it's inherent pointability and accuracy, but for sheer power and beauty my '60 Army is right there on top. Mine is a fluted 2nd Generation but I don't shoot with the fluted cylinder (leave that aside for aesthetic reasons) instead I use a spare rebated cylinder and love the looks of that as well. Possibly moreso than the fluted.

The Navies....



The 1860 Army with the fluted cylinder...



Army with the rebated cylinder next to it's "younger" cousin.

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Old July 11, 2008, 06:48 PM   #10
Oquirrh
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Gotta get a 60...

can you load 60 Armys to the levels of 58 Remingtons?
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Old July 11, 2008, 07:35 PM   #11
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I see a problem right now. Get a steel mainspring housing and trigger for that Colt right away. I got the arched housing and a short trigger so it looks like a 1911A1 on mine. And wood grips. But that is taken care of I see. I think I would trade my Remington for a Colt but it would have to be like Uberti or something put together really well. I have seen enough low end repros and felt the crusty actions to know I don't want them.
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Old July 11, 2008, 07:45 PM   #12
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can you load 60 Armys to the levels of 58 Remingtons?
I'd say so. I can load 35 grs of Pyrodex in mine and still have room for more after the ball is seated on top of a wad. The fact that the Colt is an open top has no bearing with bp loads.

Quote:
I think I would trade my Remington for a Colt but it would have to be like Uberti or something put together really well. I have seen enough low end repros and felt the crusty actions to know I don't want them.
Pietta quality is as good as Uberti these days and in some circles they say it's better than what Uberti makes now.
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Old July 12, 2008, 02:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
can you load 60 Armys to the levels of 58 Remingtons?
Nope you can't an 1858 Pietta(Uberti, Euroarms, Armi San Paolo also)Rem will hold 40gr of fffg Black Powder, an 1860 Army Pietta or Armi San Marco hold 35gr max if your lucky w/ ball only....no more room for anything else in both the Rems or the Colts.

40gr and Ball in a Rem 1858


35gr and ball in an 1860 Army


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Old July 12, 2008, 05:40 AM   #14
Hawg Haggen
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Pyrodex does compress more than bp.
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:59 AM   #15
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I'll buy that Hawg, all I use is BP FFFg in Revs or FFg in Rifles. I know a Hogdon product not to compress or wad 777 ffg...meet the ball to the powder "only", was hard for me to get consistancy that way after crunchin' down hard on BP.

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Old July 13, 2008, 10:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen
Even Merwin and Hulbert are back in production
No, they're not, at least not yet. Right now they're the C&WAS version of computer "vaporware". The Website at http://www.merwinhulbertco.com/ is there to find out how much interest there is in a reproduction of a finely-machined, relatively delicate but fascinating piece of history.

I think that, considering the level of machining and workmanship needed for an accurate repro, the price would put it out of the range of the ordinary enthusiast. If they actually get made, and that is very doubtful, the few available would be snatched up by collectors and buried in safes, never to see the sun or burn powder.

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Old July 13, 2008, 10:46 AM   #17
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Yep, you're right. I was on that website awhile back but lost my link to it.
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Old July 22, 2008, 07:51 AM   #18
Ace On The Line
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While I like both the '60 Army and the '61 Navy, I'd still have to go with my '51 Navy as my first choice.
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