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Old June 28, 2008, 08:09 AM   #51
PT111
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Quote:
Your Concealed Carry Permit is ONLY for carry for personal self defense.
Technically that is not correct. Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
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Old July 1, 2008, 01:50 AM   #52
Seawolf_504
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Some of you guys need to go back and really re read this post -

Quote:
You people who want to run around making citizen's arrests scare me more than the perps do. Y'all sound like Gomer on Andy Griffith, "Citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!"

The concept of UNTRAINED private personnel attempting to detain a BG is idiotic at best. The least case scenario is you get yourself shot. The worst case is you get an innocent bystander shot when the BG decides he isn't gonna just lay down and let you arrest him. A lot of people don't have much respect for the uniform/authority of a LEO. How much respect do you think they will show an individual in civilian clothing?

We are NOT trained to act or serve as LEOs. To the poster who said a citizen's arrest is preferable to shooting the guy: If you don't have a 100% valid reason for shooting him, you should have never pulled your weapon.

A CWP is for self protection from an imminent threat ONLY. It doesn't enable or justify the holder to run around acting like some vigilante militia in the old West. Negate the threat, then let the official LEOs take over. Grow up, people, don't play cops and robbers (bang, bang, you're dead) or someone just might be.

Look at this scenario: You come upon someone mugging an old man. You pull your weapon and order him to stop, and you tell him he's under arrest. What's gonna happen? The first thing is he'll look at you, in civilian clothing, and he'll take off running with you chasing him hollering "citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!" Now that you've made your citizen's arrest move, what'cha now. Keep chasing him? You can't catch him, he's flying like the wind. You CANNOT shoot him. When he's running away from you, there is no imminent threat, and you can't use deadly force to enable a citizen's arrest. You're gonna stand there, out of breath, at a fence he scaled with one jump, and look really DUMB.

What should have happened: Same scenario - "Stop or I'll shoot!" He takes off running. You watch until you are sure he's no longer a threat, then you tend to the old guys injuries and stick around to give a good description to the LEOs.

The alternate way it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed.

Or, he could advance on you with a club in his hand and you have to shoot him dead. No citizen's arrest needed there, either.
The only thing I will say as an LEO is that some of you people in this thread scare the crap out of me with your logic and decision making. If you aren't carefull you are going to end up behind bars yourself.

There is a popular phrase around the CWP crowd that says, "I carry a firearm because I can't carry a cop" well that doesn't mean you suddenly become one either.
Now don't get me wrong. If you are confronted with a deadly threat and you fear for your own life then by all means front site, push, and drop that SOB, but do not let the power of having that gun confuse you into thinking you are now some sort of citizen cop and bullet proof because you aren't.


Something else I want to mention while we are on this subject. If you are ever involved in a shoot/no shoot situation and the Police arrive on scene with you standing over a guy with your gun pointed at him just remember that to us EVERYONE is a threat and a possible bad guy until we can secure the scene and determine what happened. Don't be surprised to have several guns pointed at you if this is the case and you will be treated like an armed suspect until proven otherwise so be prepared.
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Old July 1, 2008, 02:33 AM   #53
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Repeat And Repeat And Repeat:

Quote:
Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
I've posted much the same, and the LEO poster above is posting much of the same, so do others, yet many still don't seem to understand the basic legal premise of the CCW they have in their wallets.

How can this BE?? How can so many be oblivious to the basic purpose of what they must have been licensed to have. It's like having a driver's license and believing you can cite others for traffic violations or transport the ill to emergency rooms with it.

If you don't understand CCW and you didn't have to in order to get it, for the love of heaven go do so now. It is not ethical to carry around a little machine that can kill people by pressing a switch and not understand what you can do with it under CCW Law (JUST CARRY IT) - and what you can't.(EVERYTHING ELSE)

And what you can do under SD Law (WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN) and what special powers you have in addition to that (NONE)

Yet these are often the same people who brag about how easy it is to get a CCW in their locale and look down on "tyrannical other states" for requiring some basic knowledge or skills. Well, the perfect argument for continued restrictions on licensing - within the limits of the 2nd A. under the recent SCOTUS ruling - is these woefully oblivious cowboy posts. Yes you do need more restrictions, a primer class in basic CCW and SD Law with a requirement in testing - or some objective evaluation - that this information is actually understood. You live in society with 300,000,000 others, not on a mountain top by yourself.

Last edited by gvf; July 1, 2008 at 10:12 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 1, 2008, 04:54 PM   #54
Derius_T
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Your Concealed Carry Permit is ONLY for carry for personal self defense.

PT111 wrote:

Quote:
Technically that is not correct. Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
I said it allows you to CARRY a gun for self defense purposes. I guess I should have emphasized the carry part more for our slower readers? Sorry I assumed people who had them understood what a CARRY permit was. I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
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Old July 1, 2008, 05:58 PM   #55
PT111
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I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
Exactly and you do not need a gun to do that. People get all hung up on the only protection available is a gun and without one you are doomed. There are many other methods of protection besides a gun. A CCW permit does not say that you can protect yourself and it does not say that you can use a gun to protect yourself. I "allows" you to carry a gun and what you do with it is immaterial to whether or not you have a permit or whether or not you use it to defend yourself. It is not a self-protection permit. You don't need a permit for that as you so bluntly put it.
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Old July 1, 2008, 06:12 PM   #56
.300H&H
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A citizen's arrest is one of those things that 'can' be done, but should be strongly strongly avoided. Sorta like ice skating on a frozen river - it can be legally done in certain areas in early Spring, but I sure wouldn't recommend it. The only citizen's arrest I remember that was appropriate and carried out well - was when a local physician some years ago followed <pre-cell phone era>and stopped an extremely intoxicated individual/driver from getting back in a car. Incidentally, no firearm was used and the physician making the citizen's arrest verbally told the person that he was making a citizen's arrest and persuaded the individual to wait until the police arrived.<in the cell phone era even that would probably not be required these days.>



If there was a situation even where someone demanded or begged me to make a citizen's arrest, I wouldn't do it. I'll call the police. I'll be a good witness and I'll defend myself and others - but when a person injects themself into a situation and starts becoming a 'legal enforcer' rather than a 'personal defender' - the ice gets very thin and things get nasty and start boomeranging. I'd rather explain how I had to defend myself on my own property than how I had to chase after someone and make a citizen's arrest on somebody else's property... They're not very fun. There's more pleasant things to do in life. If one needs an adrenalin rush, I'd suggest noodling for catfish or ridin a roller coaster at the amuzement park.
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Old July 1, 2008, 06:41 PM   #57
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Quote:
I said it allows you to CARRY a gun for self defense purposes. I guess I should have emphasized the carry part more for our slower readers? Sorry I assumed people who had them understood what a CARRY permit was. I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
I believe the permit just allows you to legally carry a gun. Full stop. No presumption of *why* you want to carry it.
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Old July 1, 2008, 07:06 PM   #58
Recon7
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Quote:
Sorta like ice skating on a frozen river
but... but... I've been carrying the "skates" IWB and am just itching to use it.

Too many lawyers out there.
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Old July 2, 2008, 01:09 PM   #59
Derius_T
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Look nitpickers, we all know that a carry permit is to carry a gun, and gives you no other rights and privleges. We also know what 99.9% of people carry a gun FOR, so why the ball busting? Nothing better to do, or are you lawyers? Sheesh.

And all this blah, blah, full stop. crap. Do you actually talk like that with your friends, or just trying to look self important on the internet? I vote for the latter.....
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Old July 2, 2008, 02:22 PM   #60
bigjack59
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IN SC the law that allows you to carry a gun with a CCW is called "The Citizens Self Defense Act of 1996." No quibbling there. A citizen's arrest goes back to ye olde English Common Law, and in SC is only good for a felony. That problem is, are you sure it is a felony and are you sure you can handle what may happen when the BG doesn't comply?
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Old July 2, 2008, 08:45 PM   #61
PT111
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Quote:
Look nitpickers, we all know that a carry permit is to carry a gun, and gives you no other rights and privleges. We also know what 99.9% of people carry a gun FOR, so why the ball busting? Nothing better to do, or are you lawyers? Sheesh.

And all this blah, blah, full stop. crap. Do you actually talk like that with your friends, or just trying to look self important on the internet? I vote for the latter.....
If you go back and read the original post it did not appear that everyone knew that and was the start of this entire discussion.

Quote:
Is it only in movies?
I was under the impression that you cannot legally detain a threat with a gun; perhaps the exclusion being if a criminal broke into your home.

I'm starting to think my CCW is just about worthless; it only allows me to carry in a way that my 2A rights already guarantee...but I have to submit personal info, take a no-brainer test, and pay $50+ to get my (neutered) guaranteed 2A rights.
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Old July 4, 2008, 12:24 PM   #62
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I only scanned the thread but I'll add this. In my North Carolina CCW class they drilled into us that there is no citizens arrest in our state. He said it in the class, he had a handout with it, and it was on the test.

I'm sure it varies state to state but there is no citizens arrest in NC, period.
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Old July 4, 2008, 02:57 PM   #63
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Absolutely correct

Quote:
there is no citizens arrest in NC, period.
But there is a "Citizens Detention" under certain guidelines.
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Old July 5, 2008, 02:39 PM   #64
Seawolf_504
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All I'm gonna say is 1- Good luck getting them to stop and 2- You better have your ducks in a row because some defense attorney is going to own your ass if you screw up.
You willing to give away everything you have worked for to the scumbag's family? I sure as hell ain't.
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