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Old June 26, 2008, 02:04 PM   #26
Recon7
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Another tool in the box, just make sure to keep it sharp.
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Old June 26, 2008, 02:13 PM   #27
M1911
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There are many techniques for disarming. If you are serious about learning how to disarm someone, I suggest that you study several of these systems and become proficient in them before trying to design your own.

Lindell: http://www.nletc.com/courses_details.php?id=19
Insights: http://www.insightstraining.com/us/v...3&categoryID=4

The instructors that taught me disarming techniques said that trying to disarm someone who is pointing a gun at you is one step short of suicide.

Finally, your "method" assumes that your single strike will instantly render your attacker senseless for some period of time. That just isn't going to happen 99 times out of 100, even if you are Chuck Liddell. And you're not.

If you are trying to disarm someone, go for the gun. You must know your technique cold. You must choose the correct technique. You must apply it quickly, decisively, and with surprise. And even then, you may well get shot.

With your technique, you'd simply get shot.
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Old June 26, 2008, 08:41 PM   #28
Spectre
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Quote:
surrender position I was talking about was with my hands up and to either side at head level
No reason to mince words, here- this is silly. Why take your hands further away from the threat, and in a position where it will be mechanically slower to get them back? If your adversary lets you, take your hands out more to the sides than up. Think shoulder level, not head level or higher.

Let's cut to the chase. For a/n (unarmed) disarm to work, you must be able to touch the attacker. If you can't touch the attacker, or at very least their weapon, you should only make a move if you're pretty certain you're dead anyway. My stance on that is, if I'm going down, I'm going down as hard as I can.

Disarming techniques are dangerous? What the hell? You're facing a firearm. There is the implied threat of lethal force already, and you may be receiving overt threats in addition. Personally, I'd already call that dangerous.

You're overthinking some parts of this and underthinking others. Forget right/left. You sweep the threat off you with the closest hand.

J.R. Shirley
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Old June 26, 2008, 09:29 PM   #29
stephen426
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I really wish I had the time to get back into martial arts. I'm working about 80+ hours a week since I opened up the new restaurant. I can't wait until the managers get done with their training so I can lighten up a little. Oh well.

Again, thanks for the input. I will only try it in a last ditch effort or if the opportunity is so great that I feel I can do it safely. There are never guarantees one way or another. Maybe I'll try to get to a training seminar next time I get a break.

Major lessons learned...
1. Only try to disarm the attacker as a last ditch effort.
2. Even skilled martial artists got shot most of the time.
3. Control the weapon if possible.
4. Learn some "proven" techniques and PRACTICE.
5. Do not assume that the attacker will be debilitated with your strikes.
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Old June 27, 2008, 12:42 PM   #30
MLeake
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Notes from practice...

Please realize that I have not attempted to take a firearm from an attacker, and that I am only speaking from a knowledge base of training for disarms against brawling weapons (staff, baseball bat, training knife, shinai, etc...)

From a few hundred hours of practicing disarms vs melee weapons, there are two truisms I've learned:

1) Get off the line of attack. (Works better if you can close while getting off the line, but get off the line, or you get hit.)

2) Disarms that provide a leverage advantage for you, and that take the attacker's balance away, work much better than techniques that rely primarily on inflicting pain or creating surprise alone. (If his adrenaline is up, he may not feel much pain, but a loss of balance or leverage will always hurt him.)

So, from my perspective, if you don't get off the line, and take his balance, you are pretty well screwed.

Cheers,

M
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Old June 27, 2008, 05:29 PM   #31
David Armstrong
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Quote:
The problem with wait and see is it is often too late to do anything after the bad guy shoots you unexpectedly.
And the other side of the coin is that if you resist violently you often get shot when the BG had no intention of harming anyone. Again, that is the most likely outcome of these scenarios. But yes, there should be certain behaviors that you can key on, or certain actions that draw a line in the sand, that warrant the all-out defense.
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Old July 2, 2008, 03:51 PM   #32
Slugthrower
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There are many techniques for disarming and all are risky at best. Many of these have a person redirecting the weapon to either side of them. There is a problem with this concept, especially if the weapon in question is a firearm.

What if you are in a room full of people? Even if you avoid getting shot yourself an innocent bystander may be shot. There are other options other than redirecting to the left or right. Perhaps some other methods should be considered as well as professional instruction by a certified instructor. It is a helluva thing to train for, especially if you train yourself improperly.

Practice leads to patterns. Imperfect practice leads to imperfect patterns. It is best to get it right in a safe manner so as to avoid potential death or serious injury to yourself or others around you. Perfect practice will get the bugs out of the technique.

Keep it simple, if the technique require multiple movements and complicated maneuvers it is likely to fail. The more intricate anything is the easier it is the circumvent/ counter.
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Old July 2, 2008, 05:11 PM   #33
MLeake
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Follow on to keeping it simple...

Simple works best, true.

But one thing I learned from a few years of wrestling and a lot of years of aikido: If you have to think about the technique, you can't execute it under pressure.

If you really want to learn disarms, you need to practice them until they don't require conscious thought. Even then, your chances of success are far from guaranteed.

But if you have to think about the move, you won't be able to do it, unless you get ridiculously lucky.

Cheers,

M
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Old July 2, 2008, 09:46 PM   #34
Deaf Smith
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Stephen has a good start.

Quote:
1. Only try to disarm the attacker as a last ditch effort.
2. Even skilled martial artists got shot most of the time.
3. Control the weapon if possible.
4. Learn some "proven" techniques and PRACTICE.
5. Do not assume that the attacker will be debilitated with your strikes.
Now add this:

Your attack must be spontainious. It must not be telegraphed. It must be a suprise to the gun welder.

When grabbing for the weapon, ALWAYS look away from the muzzle of the gun. If it goes off, the blast of gunpower is going 20,000 fps (for a very short distance) and that is enough to blind you from the particals if you are looking at the muzzle.

Move in such a way the weapon will not be pointed at you AND any innocents (hard to do!) Keep in mind there may very well be others present and they will be in danger from the gun's muzzle.

Once you start the ball rolling, DON'T STOP AND DON'T LOSE CONTROL OF THE WEAPON! Go all out and never give up.

I have found some of the Krav Maga methods are quite good. Any method that takes more than three moves or expects certian behavior from the one you are disarming is bound to fail. You will be dealing with a thinking resisting human and it will be a fight for your life!
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