The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 24, 2008, 02:47 AM   #1
Lieven
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Location: Antwerpen, Belgium
Posts: 1
WWII or squirrel-hunting?

Dear

When cleaning up an old stable that wasn't cleaned up for some hell of a time, I found an beautiful unused gun shell. Inscription says 30-06 SPRG R-P.

Yes, I suggest Springfield and Remington Peters. But is this just ordinary hunting equipment or an archeological discovery? In my country doesn't live any animal that has to be shot with that kind of stuff. Maybe it's just a replica: how can I see the difference then.

thanks to you
Lieven is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 07:44 AM   #2
jrfoxx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 20, 2004
Location: Evanston,WY
Posts: 898
as far as I know, all U.S. ammo in 30-06 used during WWII was made by Lake City, and will have LC stamped on it, not SPRG R-P. That is likely a commercial round for hunting and/or target shooting. As far as wether it's a "replica" (fake/inert), no way to know without removing the bullet, which I dont recommend, personally, if you dont have the proper tool. A way to make an educated guess, would be to hold it close to your ear and shake it. If you hear a faint sound of powder rattling around, it's almost certanly a live round.

hope that helps.
__________________
Q: How can I reduce the amount of mail I receive from the NRA?
A: Simply email us at membership@nrahq.org or dial 800-NRA-3888 and request to be placed on the "Do Not Promote" list.
jrfoxx is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 08:04 AM   #3
Dezynco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 7, 2008
Posts: 401
I'd say that there's nothing special about the cartridge, probably dropped by someone who owned a 30-06 of some sort, maybe fell out of a pocket. I would put it on a shelf or just throw it away.

It's probably a live round, so I wouldn't throw it in a fire or anything, might startle you when it goes "POP"!
Dezynco is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 10:05 AM   #4
Davis
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Posts: 675
Of course, that is just about all it would do would be to go "pop."

Davis
Davis is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 10:21 AM   #5
azredhawk44
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,465
Quote:
Of course, that is just about all it would do would be to go "pop."
The primer will zing out of the pocket pretty fast though.
azredhawk44 is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 10:57 AM   #6
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,502
All the ammunition used by the US Gov't in WWII will have an ammunition plant code and a two digit year date on the headstamp.

For example "LC 42" would be Lake City ammunition plant in 1942. "FA 44" would be Frankford Arsenal in 1944.

The R-P 30-06 SPRG you found is just ordinary hunting ammunition, if the bullet is a full metal jacket it was probably manufactured for practice instead of hunting.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is online now  
Old June 24, 2008, 11:58 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"all U.S. ammo in 30-06 used during WWII was made by Lake City, and will have LC stamped on it, not SPRG R-P."

Not even remotely close, Foxx.

There were, IIRC, something like 30 separate plants manufacturing .30-06 ammunition for use in World War II.

Lake City (LC) and Frankford Arsenal (FA) are the two that are most commonly known and were the primary government plants producing ammunition.

EC, EW, FC, AO, DM, G, LM, and M are just a few of the others that manufactured some quantities of .30-06 for military use during WW II.

As for the one that Lieven found, that's a commercial headstamp, not a military one.


"All the ammunition used by the US Gov't in WWII will have an ammunition plant code and a two digit year date on the headstamp."

Two letter ordance codes are generally the standard for US made ammunition of the WW II era, but some plants used 1 letter.

The year code, however, is an interesting exception.

It's not at all uncommon to see US made ammo with only a single "4" stamped on the head, slightly offset.

That denotes ammunition made in 1944. To save on same and war materials, the plants were authorized to take the 1943 year bunters and, if in good shape, grind the 3 off. These bunters would then be used until they wore out or broke when they would be replaced by ones with the standard two-digit year.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 06:08 PM   #8
Dreadnought
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2006
Location: Willy
Posts: 318
I don't have too much experience with .30-'06 ammo (only a little), but any of my pistol cases with R-P on them are UMC Remington commercial ammo.
__________________
"NO YELLING ON THE BUS!"
Dreadnought is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 06:11 PM   #9
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,835
As I understand it, there was also some commercial brass used to load military ammo during the war. They had it from peacetime, it was needed, so they used it. I don't think it was a significant percentage of total production, though.

Is the bullet a full metal jacket or does it have exposed lead at the tip?
B. Lahey is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 10:07 PM   #10
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,501
Regardless of what exactly a WWII U.S. military headstamp is supposed to say, military ammo is generally not stamped with the caliber, regardless of its country of origin or use. Most military forces use only a handful of standardized calibers that are easy to tell apart, and for obvious reasons. An infantryman in a dark and muddy foxhole with mortars landing nearby and machine-gun rounds crackling overhead should not have to read a headstamp to load his rifle.

OTOH it's important for a military force to be able to quickly pull a faulty batch of ammo from the field- ammo that soldiers have already loaded into magazines, ammo belts, bandoliers, or whatever, so they can't rely on what was printed on the box. ("Uhhh, it was a big green metal can. Just like all the rest of them.") Hence, most military ammo is stamped with alphanumeric gobbledygook denoting the date and location of production.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 10:16 PM   #11
gadgetguy1288
Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2008
Location: Elizabeth City, NC
Posts: 89
I just pulled out the box of shells I have for my rifle(Remington CoreLokt, purchased about 2 months ago) and it has the exact same thing stamped on it, so i dont think its from WWII, tho i still could be wrong, no clue of how long they have been putting that on the bottoms :-\
__________________
Randy

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government, or in the case of a zombie outbreak."
gadgetguy1288 is offline  
Old June 25, 2008, 01:21 AM   #12
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,359
At least 40 years and probably a fair bit more

The R-P headstamp has been in use on Remington brass since the 1960s, and likely a fair bit more. Without doing any research (its late, and I'm tired), all I can tell you is that Remington and Peters were seperate ammo companies, as was the Union Metallic Cartridge company. Remington bought them, at different times, and you can find different combinations of headstamp on older brass. Rem-UMC brass was made for many years. R-P brass has been on the market since I was a kid, and before. Remington also kept the Peters brand going for some time as shotgun shells.

Your .30-06 Springfield round, made by Remington is very common in the USA. FN of Liege has made many rifles in this caliber since the end of WW II.

I would not consider a single round of American made sporting ammunition a historical artifact, even though it did turn up in an unusual and unexpected place.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 25, 2008, 04:12 AM   #13
Strolls
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
I would not consider a single round of American made sporting ammunition a historical artifact, even though it did turn up in an unusual and unexpected place.
Just to clarify, rifle shooting is MUCH less common here in Europe than the US, and upon finding a round (as Lieven has) one would not normally spring to the assumption that it was left by a hunter.

Since the OP lives in an area in which extremely famous World War II operations took place I think it's natural for him to wonder if a round discovered under these circumstances might have been dropped by an American liberator reloading hurriedly under fire.

Ok, the round is way too new to fit the scenario Lieven might have imagined, but any Antwerper could easily have conceived it to have been dropped by the grandfather of one of our forum members. As it transpires the words "historical artefact" don't apply, but any bullet would certainly be curiosity enough to remind a local of the gross military foul-up, ahem, battle which took place in the area.
Strolls is offline  
Old June 25, 2008, 10:56 AM   #14
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
Remington did not buy Union Metallic.

Remington and Union Metallic were owned by the same parent company starting in the 1890s, I believe, but were operated as separate entities for quite a few years.

They were formally joined as a single entity in 1912, and formally incorporated as Remington - UMC in 1916 per an article in the NY Times.

Peters Cartridge Company was sold to Remington in the 1930s, in large part because of the effects of the depression.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 27, 2008, 02:01 PM   #15
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,359
Thanks for the clarifiation, Mike

I'm probably have that info somewhere, just too lazy to look it up.

The round was found cleaning out an old stable, and clearly commercial ammo, so there could be any number of possible explanations of how it got there. It might even have come from a saddlebag of some tourist/hunter (and likely an American), who spent some time riding in the area, on his way to or from wherever he hunted.

How many of us have never had a single round go missing at some point on a trip? Sometimes even more.

Can't begin to say what is likely, but it is possible.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 28, 2008, 12:26 PM   #16
bigjack59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2008
Location: greenville sc
Posts: 221
That area would have fallen to the British AO during the Big One. Any weapons the Brits may have had? Ammo and guns and everything nice like that is very hard to come across in Europe, I can see why he would wonder...
__________________
ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN
bigjack59 is offline  
Reply

Tags
30-06 , cardridge , hunting , replica , war

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09884 seconds with 9 queries