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Old June 17, 2008, 08:50 PM   #26
jupiterjoe
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Hi JR...

I live in the East end of Louisville... Do you mind being a little more specific as to your location. Cross streets, general neighborhood, etc? I would like to know for obvious reasons...
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Old June 17, 2008, 09:55 PM   #27
DEDON45
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Sounds like you did OK... I'm not too sure I could've done any better, 'cept I have an assortment of weapons to choose from in the house... (no .380 for me... .45ACP or 12 Guage... .44 Magnum in case they're Zombies)

One (or two) posts mentioned "cover" as opposed to "concealment"... I'm not sure what, in the average home, would provide real cover... I mean most homes in the US are built with the internal walls being mostly drywall with a 2 x 4 here or there.... how effective is drywall at stopping a bullet (not very... I've tested it before)? What would one use as cover?

In any event, sounds like this is a good excuse to get some more guns... It's good to hear the LEOs out there believe in self-defense and RKBA as well.
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Old June 19, 2008, 12:03 AM   #28
Aristides
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To JupiterJoe:

I live in the northeast corridor framed by US 42 and US 22, just shy of Prospect and inside the Snyder Freeway. In discussing my incident with neighbors, I learned that there has been a considerable problem not only in my area, but in Prospect/Oldham County as well.

Also, the police officer told me about some home invasion/rape incidents in the area, and then a friend at church told me that one of her best friends was raped just a couple of weeks ago in the Chamberlain Lane area. The victim had always been a jogger, but this fateful day she came back from jogging only to find the rapist waiting for her inside her home. He apparently had been watching her patterns, knew when she would be out jogging, and forced his way into the house through a window while she was on a jog. When she got home, there he was. Clearly, there is an alarming trend of the criminals invading the higher-end suburbs.

I guess you saw the local news a couple weeks ago, where they interviewed the 72-yr-old man who shot the two home invaders? I don't know what part of town this was. If you didn't see it, the short version is that the man heard a knock on his door, wasn't expecting visitors. (Sounds uncomfortably like my situation!!) When he opened the door to see who it was, two bad guys busted in on him. One guy put a gun to his head. His wife was in the kitchen. He thought, "I'm a dead man, and they will hurt my wife, if I don't do something." So he faked a heart attack, and as he clasped his chest and bent over, he kicked the gunman in the knee. When the gunman reflexed in response to the kick, the homeowner drew a gun from his waistband and shot the gunman, then shot the accomplice. Then he looked back at the gunman, saw that he was still alive, and considering him still a threat, shot him again until he was dead. The news folks also interviewed the police and some other law enforcement person (attorney general? not sure). They all supported the homeowners actions, citing Kentucky's laws which ensure a person's right to self-defense.
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Old June 19, 2008, 06:21 AM   #29
Brit
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Bad people hate lights

We just had our houses painted, 20 year old sub division (second time)

I have new coach lights to install, dawn to dusk automatic. The street light illuminates my path to the front door.

Glock 19 on me when I am up, bedside table when I am down. Small house, two storey, looking into gate on stairs. Marked Security vehicle in garage, it does not get parked outside, when out monitored alarm is on, motion detectors.

There is no such thing as a safe place to live, criminals have vehicles, coming in at night, I do a quick prowl about, Air horn and P/A get attention, never needed up to now.

JR, quite a wake up call Yes! Put the 3M hurricane sheeting on your glass, it is mandated on all Federal buildings now, a base ball bat takes a while to get through, also good for windy City. Orlando.
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Old June 19, 2008, 08:40 AM   #30
ZeSpectre
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I think the best thing about threads like this one is it causes folks to sit back and "keyboard quarterback" the scenario. And No, I'm not being sarcastic.

What I mean is that it causes the OP and the rest of us to go over the scenario bit by bit and consider what happened, how to best respond, and then we all develop plans.

As someone once said "after the whistle blows is no time to come up with a game plan".

So every time I read a thread like this and review/consider the scenarios/responses presented it acts just like a sort of practice in case (God forbid) something ever happens to ME.

It also reminds me of important stuff like the fact that I need to get a good deadbolt on the front door of the house TONIGHT! (We're remodeling and doing that kinda got lost in the shuffle lately).
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Old June 19, 2008, 10:38 AM   #31
threegun
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I had a similar situation happen years ago. I was spending the night with my grand parents, something I did Sunday thru Thursday because I worked in my gramps printing company next door to his home. As we watched the news late one night someone knocked on the door. They lived in a bad section of town but the business forced them to stay. Anyway Grandma jumps up (as did I) and asks in a very unhappy voice "who is it". I ran to my bedroom to insert a mag into my Mini-14. Without answering the people again banged on the door. Bang bang bang....three very loud hammer fists to the door......everything amplified because it is an old wood framed above ground house so even the windows rattled. My grandfather now wobbling his way to his 38 special and I am walking toward the door with my Mini-14. Grandma now really upset shouts again "who is it" her voice partially cracking. Again no answer. I got down on my knee off to the side of the door and chambered a round into the Mini-14. I used the rifles barrel to poke up the porch light switch. With grandpa now ready with his revolver I opened the door. I walked out onto the now empty porch only to find two large men running away.......one was coming down from having jumped the fence. I truly believe that the noisy Mini-14's bolt chambering a round scared these guys away. I made plenty of mistakes for sure but I was 18 or 19 years old and had zero tactical training back then. Still things turned out ok. Unfortunately both grand parents have since passed.......from natural causes.
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Old June 19, 2008, 11:25 PM   #32
MyGunsJammed
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Quote:
I guess you saw the local news a couple weeks ago, where they interviewed the 72-yr-old man who shot the two home invaders? I don't know what part of town this was. If you didn't see it, the short version is that the man heard a knock on his door, wasn't expecting visitors. (Sounds uncomfortably like my situation!!) When he opened the door to see who it was, two bad guys busted in on him. One guy put a gun to his head. His wife was in the kitchen. He thought, "I'm a dead man, and they will hurt my wife, if I don't do something." So he faked a heart attack, and as he clasped his chest and bent over, he kicked the gunman in the knee. When the gunman reflexed in response to the kick, the homeowner drew a gun from his waistband and shot the gunman, then shot the accomplice. Then he looked back at the gunman, saw that he was still alive, and considering him still a threat, shot him again until he was dead. The news folks also interviewed the police and some other law enforcement person (attorney general? not sure). They all supported the homeowners actions, citing Kentucky's laws which ensure a person's right to self-defense.

Kudos to the old man for faking a heart attack, drawing the gun and killing his attackers.....

I dont think a young looking 30 year old guy like me can fake a heart attack, but who knows, maybe I can fake an athsma attack???
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Old June 19, 2008, 11:28 PM   #33
vox rationis
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Quote:
I dont think a young looking 30 year old guy like me can fake a heart attack, but who knows, maybe I can fake an athsma attack???
...how about an epileptic seizure...or fainting (vasovagal syncope)
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Old June 20, 2008, 02:32 AM   #34
mellow_c
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I'll probably be repeating a few things others have said, but here I go. First of All, Thank you for your post. Everyone enjoys a good story, especially one with a happy ending and good lessons to be learned. Glad to hear your doing ok. But dont be too worried, bad things happen to the best of us. Dont let this fill your life with paranoia, just do the best you can to be safe and prepared. Like a Boy Scout
Obviously you should grab a phone, but get the gun first. A phone will just get help on the way, but the gun will save you in the event that something happens RIGHT NOW! I'm not totally against yelling out "who's there" Because, there might be a chance it's someone you know, or even a neighbor who is in urgent need of help, but they cant yell for you because then the "bad guy" will hear them, hence the reason they come to the back door, ya never know Anything can happen, Thats also a great reason to NOT SHOOT until you know who your shooting at, and why! But yelling out for identification is more of a judgment call which you can only make at the time. I would think most bad guys would wait till they were in your house before shooting you, but once again, you never know.
I think the best thing anyone can do is to have motion detector lights at every outside door of their house. To scare away intruders, and also to help you identify who's outside. Many intruders wont be scared by them, but then at least you have a chance of identifying them.
Bolts that bolt UP on to the door frame, and Down into the floor are a great way to keep your self locked up in your house. Even if someone brakes the glass on your door and unlocks the door nob, they will have a very hard time knowing about and reaching the top bolt and especially the bottom bolt. And it also makes it much harder to kick in the door. But if you have an all glass back door like I do, your pretty much screwed anyway, but atleast you can hear them comming!
Having an alert dog is always a good thing! Doesnt matter what it is, as long as it can hear and bark.
Thats about all I have to say as far as your situation goes. Congratulations on how you handled it, even though it wasnt "perfect" everything worked out well.

My family has always had guns in the house, but never loaded and always locked up (I live with my Parents, they have always "Kept" my and my brothers .22 rifles locked away) But I'm 24 now, and getting things together nicely, and I am enjoying all my time at home with my parents.

I have been buying quite a few firearms over the last few years. (At my parents disappointment) (half of which they dont even know about, yeah yeah yeah, I know) And recently my Grandpa gave me his old Ruger Mark II. I have open carried with it just a few times, mostly to grow more comfortable exercising my rights, no matter how unpopular it may seam. And as of just 2 nights ago I've decided to start keeping it in the main open compartment on my headboard (I have a waterbed that I put a mattress in) right behind my Upright TV watching pillow, it's got a loaded 10 round magazine of .22's but I keep the chamber empty. Also keep a quick flip pocket knife within arms reach.
I even have a couple small boxes with paper targets over them set up on the other side of my room that I practice my front sight alignment, and shooting. Usually during commercials, with my very realistic airsoft pistol (30 bucks from walmart, just like a real 9mm auto)

Most of all that is for my own entertainment, and because I enjoy it all as a hobby more than some sort of serious training I need to keep me safe. I know this isnt the place to talk about my "beliefs" But I believe we are all safe, all the time, and there is nothing to fear other than fear it's self. Life is perfect and exactly as it should be, other wise it would be some other way.
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Old June 20, 2008, 12:45 PM   #35
flcaptainbill
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Even if you have 10,000 watts worth of lights connected to motion sensors they are no substitute for a flashlight.

There are two things on my nightstand when I go to bed. S&W 6906 and a 3 D cell mag light.
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Old June 20, 2008, 08:29 PM   #36
mellow_c
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Oh yeah, I've got a Mag light right next to my knife
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Old June 22, 2008, 06:27 AM   #37
sourdough44
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I just wanted to thank the original poster. No Monday morning quarterbacking here.

Riminds me of when I had some loud banging on the door 18yrs ago in MS at 1:00 A.M. I investigated with my 357mag. It was the next door single mother who's newborn was having trouble breathing. It all turned out fine & she never knew I had my iron with me. My guard was up but you just never know.

Last edited by sourdough44; June 22, 2008 at 02:45 PM.
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Old June 22, 2008, 07:26 AM   #38
azsixshooter
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Thanks for the post. I'm happy that if that had to happen at least it was you home alone and not your daughter or wife there by themselves with some piece of **** tapping on the back door.

My good friend's sister and husband got home invaded. I won't go into the details, but it was really, really bad. At least they are both still alive and 5 of the 6 attackers were caught, one made it back to mexico and got away.

Anyway, good to hear that you're okay and my advice is shotgun shotgun shotgun, 20 gauge pump or semi for your girls when they are home. CCW isn't for everyone, make sure your daughter is mentally willing to take aim, pull the trigger and end a life or putting a gun in her hands is about the same as putting it in a criminal's hands. At the very least, get her the best training you can afford and try to get some women who have had to use guns before to defend their bodies/lives to talk to her so she can hear a woman's perspective and all.

I worry about my sister and bro-in-law. They live in a nice house / nice area just like what you are describing and as far as I know they don't have any firearms in the house. I wish they'd at least get a dog and a 20 gauge semi-auto. I'd gladly buy both for them if they'd let me.
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Old June 22, 2008, 09:16 AM   #39
stephen426
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First of all, I'm glad nothing happened to you.

Shortly after I got married, my wife and I were burglerized. This was in the best gated subdivision in North Miami and the house across the street was worth over $1 million five years ago. Bad things happen in good areas since that is where the goodies are.

Since you are already a dog owner, maybe you might want to get a bigger and meaner dog. That dog could live outside and cover your yard. I have an akita and they are pretty intimidating. They don't bark much, but when they do, its usually because something is there (could be another animal). They are really smart dogs and very loyal. They only thing is they shed twice a year and there is enough hair for 3 dogs!

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Old June 22, 2008, 09:41 AM   #40
chrisandclauida2
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all the should haves were coverd already. glad your safe.

goes to show always carry even at home. just imagine if he just kicked in the door? you disarmed and in a poor tactical position having yo recover from the shock and engage hand to hand or retrieve a weapon.

again glad your ok.


situations like this are why i say work thru as many what ifs as you can and decide your course of action so you dont have to try to think it thru like you did during the huge adrenalin burst you were going thru.
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Old June 22, 2008, 10:15 PM   #41
Aristides
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I'm the Original Poster checking back in...

While I agree with most of the criticisms, suggestions, etc the ones I'm not quite in agreement with are 1) the idea that it is wrong to call out and ask for identification, and 2) the idea that I should call the police before checking things out for myself.

Regarding #1), if you don't call out and ask "who's there?", how else is the homeowner supposed to know whether the person knocking is friend or foe?

Regarding #2), maybe it's your neighbor who came to ask for some help, or maybe it's a friend of my daughter. In either case, the visitor coming to the back door (instead of the front) would admittedly be a little odd, but hey, maybe they just weren't thinking. My daughter and her friends come and go at all hours of the night, so, except for the fact that, in this case, she was out of town, having someone at the door at 1:00 am wasn't that strange. My point is, calling the police just because we have a visitor -- before checking it out myself -- seems a little premature, given that 99 times out of 100 the visitor will in fact be a friend, and not a foe.

Geez, I hope this doesn't happen 100 more times.
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Old June 23, 2008, 09:00 AM   #42
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Fortune smiles with you

I will add my voice in the "I'm glad you and yours are Okay" category. Don't be too hard on yourself though. As you said, you were prepared physically (equipment, etc.) but unprepared psychologically (Never thought it might actually happen)

Many people have this happen to them and they get hurt in the process. Should a similar event ever occur, there are several people in this forum including yourself, who will master their fear better in the future becuase of this post.

I spend a lot of time trying to "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best" but I have never been faced with an imminent danger situation outside of my workplace (I'm a CO) and even then the types of danger are different than they might be if I were watching the Lakers get schooled in my living room.

Live and learn, sounds like you managed on both counts...

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Old June 23, 2008, 09:12 AM   #43
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Quote:
You did make a few tactical misjudgements as have been previously pointed out, but you didn't get hurt, and you were prepared to do what needed to be done. Seek out some additional training and get comfortable with your weapons, it seems like you've already got the determination to take care of you and yours. And yes, if at all possible call the police first, IF you have the luxury of time... if you don't, handle buisness and we can come do the clean-up.
#1



The OP was visited by a bad guy and he did OK.
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Old June 23, 2008, 10:52 AM   #44
chrisandclauida2
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the point about calling out was that in doing so you exposed your possible location.

this goes both ways as verbal commands are one of the first steps in the use of force continuum. understand im not insinuating in any way you have to go thru steps in responding to an intruder[ unless your state says otherwise in which case i suggest you move]. im just saying that a case can be made both ways on telling the idiot he is picking a predator to attack not a victum.

you most definitely need to identify if you know your attacker. that's the first step in both engaging and determining if your in danger. this can be done easily as they enter the door. screaming out gives them a direction to key on if they decide to shoot thru the door as you were considering. same goes for the idiot standing there and knocking. he was exposing his possible location. knowing how stupid criminals are i can bet he was standing right there.

the point about calling the police is for several reasons. one is you wont exactly be able to while engaging, two some prosecutors have a funny way of deciding things based on who calls for help first or the fact you feared for your life enough to call for help with a prowler, three is to get help on the way, four is to have a recording of the incident. again here is where you dont want to mis act screwing your self legally. if it turns out to be not an intruder just say thanks i dont need you anymore. this seems of little chance as family and friends dont do things the way this guy did.

again im just trying to draw a fine point on others suggestions.
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Old June 23, 2008, 01:08 PM   #45
Rifleman 173
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Keep in mind that this guy might come back so be ready. Now you need to expand your protection ideas to you being home alone, home with family and your family home without you around there. There are two other things to consider...

#1. There is a slight possibility that what was making the noise was a raccoon or other animal. True, it's probably a long shot but it is still possible.

#2. If you have a teenage daughter, that tapping could quite possibly be a friend of hers, generally a boyfriend, trying to make subtle contact with here late a night. More than once I've gotten prowler calls at houses only to catch a teenage girl's beau trying to sneak around to see her. I would hate to see you shoot a kid who was trying to see a friend instead of a rapist.
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Old June 23, 2008, 01:44 PM   #46
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Things like that happen somewhat often here in ElPaso. About 4 weeks ago I was sitting at my computer surfing the net when I heard footsteps in the gravel (our home has desert landscaping) right outside my window. We have security bars on the window so I leave my bedroom window open a bit to allow proper A/C circulation. I smiled, reached over for my 12ga "Persuader" (which is loaded with 000 mags) and said loudly, "you have until I get to my front door with this shotgun to be gone Mother*****" and loudly jacked one into the chamber right by the window so he could hear. I grabbed my mag-light off of the bookcase and bolted for the door. The porch light was on and I could see that there was nobody near the front of the house, went out and holding the light in a tactical position (along-side the barrel) I began to work my way to the side of the house just in time to see his a$$ rounding the corner of my "well lit" street at a dead run. He hasn't been back!

Since you couldn't see who was there it is probably a good thing that you didn't fire. NEVER fire at what you cannot clearly see! It MAY have been a burglar or similar predator -or- it could have been a raccoon or other animal up to mischeif in your yard. Since you couldn't see then there is no telling what or who it was. Once, I heard LOUD noises in my front yard and at my door at 3:00 am (we used to live on a farm) and grabbed my Smith 9mm. NOBODY should have been there and I was concerned to say the least. I asked, "who is there?" and heard a somewhat muffled voice say a name (I forget the name). I went out the back door and snuck around to flank my unwanted visitor only to find that it was an old Hispanic man with alzheimers who had gotten lost in the night and couldn't find his way home. I brought the man in, gave him a blanket to wrap himself in and a cup of hot coffee (it was the dead of winter and he was freezing) and then called the police to come and get him. THANK GOD I identified him BEFORE I considered pulling the trigger!!! I would have felt terrible for shooting that poor guy and probably would have gone to prison for it since he obviously posed no threat at all to me!

Of course, I would stay on the alert if I were you and just a little suggestion ... you might consider putting a motion detector on your back porch light. That way, nobody will be able to "sneak-up" to your door at night without setting it off.
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