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Old April 21, 2008, 06:28 PM   #76
Boris Bush
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DA is correct. Short stroking is very easy to do under stress, slow down and read that again. UNDER STRESS, not shooting static targets at 10 yards. I have short stroked more than one time under the lesser stress of pin shooting, and have seen even the best pump gunners I know do it atleast one time or more.

It can and will happen no matter how good or fast you think you are.
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Old April 21, 2008, 06:37 PM   #77
ISP2605
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We found that when the shooter is standing on their hind 2 legs that short stroking rarely occurs. However, when the LEO goes into a position that is behind cover, crouched, squatted, or angled in a non-normal position that the incidents of short stroking goes up. Even if the person is very experienced with the shotgun and had been in numerous prior shooting situations that obstacles experienced when in "off" positions can greatly increase the potential for short stroking.
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Old April 21, 2008, 09:15 PM   #78
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
We found that when the shooter is standing on their hind 2 legs that short stroking rarely occurs.
Do your shooters ever stand on their front two legs? Is this something out of "Those Amazing Dobermans"?
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Old April 22, 2008, 07:09 AM   #79
ISP2605
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Quote:
Do your shooters ever stand on their front two legs? Is this something out of "Those Amazing Dobermans"?
An old phrase, probably before your time. Means as opposed to kneeling, prone, etc.
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Old April 22, 2008, 09:21 AM   #80
Desert01
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Quote:
David Armstrong:
Short-stroking seems to be fairly common, Glenn. Every course I've attended or given it has reared its ugly head. That's one of the reasons I preferred my Beretta 1201 for serious social shotgunning.
While this thread started off talking about slugs I like the turn it has taken. Many hard core shotgunners think the only shotgun you can trust your life with is the pump (insert brand). They all have fairly decent reasons for thier position. If you consider the Full Line of munitions availible for the shotgun: breaching, less-lethal, reduced recoil and launcher pumps do rule. Their versitility also makes them a top chioce for "tuners and gear heads"


If you are looking for a purely defensive shotgun for the average shooter or LEO/Mil the semi-auto shotgun has a lot of advantages. My first shotgun was a Remington 870. I purchased it after 6 years in the Army. I thought it it was great, but would on ocasion find myself wondering why my shotgun wouldn't fire. Why? Because I was so used to the manual of arms of the M-16. pull trigger, repeat. I soon picked up a 11-87 and found my groove.

Semi's are easier to train in todays semi auto world. Pumping is one less thing to try and do under stress or in positions such has prone were pumping can be a real pain. I well maintained semi shotgun with proper ammo will serve 95% of all defensive shooters needs.

Only when you get into some of the extreams that the military and some police encounter or special munitions being employed do you HAVE to HAVE a pump.
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Old April 22, 2008, 11:58 AM   #81
Big Don
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My first experience with slugs was a combat shotgun course given by TFTT. I was using a Winchester Defender with a bead sight and was amazed that I could hit a human-shaped target with any accuracy 25+ yards away. After that, I upgraded to a Benelli M-1 with ghost ring sights and have no trouble putting big holes in the "A" zone on a regular basis. I have the mag loaded with 00 buck, with 3 buck and 3 slugs in the Side Saddle. (It is my primary home defense weapon.) Among the many reasons I purchased the Benelli was the ability to "select slug" quickly and easily.

Once I started designing scenarios for combat matches, I began to incorporate slugs into just about each one that involved shotguns. What really surprised me was the number of shooters who had never shot slugs in the matches, as well as the number who had never even shot a slug round! The payoff was in seeing them realize the accuracy they could achieve with their own shotguns, even with that little bead sight. Now, everyone knows to have at least 10 slugs for each match and they all look forward to using them.

My point? We who inhabit TFL are tuned into a lot more firearms-related issues than the "average" shooter. We need to let those other shooters know about items just like this whole thread. I think almost everyone who has responded to the OP agrees that slugs are an awesome tool that had very real advantages when used properly. Now we need to get our fellow good guys to know that and train with these tools to make them better shooters too.
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Old April 23, 2008, 09:22 PM   #82
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Quote:
I was using a Winchester Defender with a bead sight and was amazed that I could hit a human-shaped target with any accuracy 25+ yards away. After that, I upgraded to a Benelli M-1 with ghost ring sights and have no trouble putting big holes in the "A" zone on a regular basis.
I rarely carry a shotgun at work (carry a carbine instead), but I qual every quarter with an 870. This includes shooting slugs at 25 yards. I can easily put five slugs in the left side of the face (aiming at the left eye) with any rack grade 870s I've shot. A shotgun with decent sights and a slug is a fairly accurate weapon at reasonable ranges. Headshots are definitely possible at even longer ranges.

The purpose of a slug? Putting a very big hole in someone who needs lead therapy.
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Old April 24, 2008, 09:17 AM   #83
Glenn E. Meyer
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For my own curiousity, is there a set of documented instances where folks have switched from buckshot to slugs and that aided in a positive outcome?

Or is it a hypothetical?
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Old April 24, 2008, 07:20 PM   #84
Big Don
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Glenn,
Re: switching from buck to slug
Yes. Had I shot the target with buck, I would have gotten a 5 second procedural penalty for not using a slug, as required.
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Old April 24, 2008, 11:33 PM   #85
BillCA
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Glenn,

I don't know of any list of documented cases where switching to a slug in an actual incident was performed.

I have, however, talked to a sheriff's deputy who was faced with an armed rape suspect in an RV. With backup 20 minutes away the perp had a young woman inside the RV and had fired out a window. The deputy loaded a pair of slugs and once he spotted the woman at the rear of the RV, he returned fire through the RV's side, just below the window. No trial was necessary.
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Old April 25, 2008, 02:27 AM   #86
mellow_c
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I just had to post this. I've got a single shot 20 gauge shot gun that I got for $100 brand new. I like it alot, it was my first shot gun.

My point is this.

It can be turned from a Nice clay and small game hunting shooter, into a one shot, huge animal killer, general body armor defeater, cover blower, by simply adding a rifled slug.


I need to shoot more slugs!
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