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Old April 12, 2008, 01:07 AM   #51
JB Books
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Having represented some of these "lads in motorcycle clubs," I second what Tourist says. I'll look for your answer in 6-8 month after your broken bones heal and your jaw is unwired.

Having said that, I have represented Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos for wrecks, they or family members, were involved in. Contrary to the A&E specials that seem to air every week, I found them to be great clients. They are respectful of my legal assistants and support staff, show up for appointments, and usually are a pleasure to represent. The fact they tend to be repeat clients and seem to go out of their way to refer friends and family members is an added bonus.
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Old April 12, 2008, 07:41 AM   #52
nemoaz
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So they are respectful murderous, rapist, drug dealers, thieves and burglars?

You are apparently very naive, counselor. There's a reason that Angels, Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos kill the people who attempt to leave. But, all's well so long as you get your cut, right?
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Old April 12, 2008, 12:02 PM   #53
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Books
They are respectful of my legal assistants and support staff
And there's an obvious reason for that. We are "just guys" who ride motorcycles. We react as treated. We don't suffer fools.

Besides, the guys who are drenched in leather are not much of a concern. They're nothing to worry about, they're playing dress-up.

And you want to know the dirty little secret? They are dressing up in the manner in which I dressed in the 1960's. They believe our clothes and ideals are frozen in time.

To make my point in this debate, let me relate a common occurance. Let's say I'm out for dinner with my wife in a cage. A friend of mine might see a bike and what to look and schmooze with the rider. Sometimes they express caution.

I take them over to the bike, introduce myself and tell the guy I'd like info on the bike. What follows is about ten minutes of friendly conversation. One time the biker and I showed each other pictures of our lap dogs.

Now apply that idea to this debate.

Unless the biker is doing something like pitching a juke-box through a plate glass window (yeah, it happens) he's probably sitting on his keester having a brew and chatting up a delightful young lady.

If he's rioting, then arrest him. If he's hustling a girl then your "command voice" makes you a Fife.

Our culture might be different, but our needs and wants under our enumerate rights are identical and your job description as a sworn officer does not change.
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Old April 12, 2008, 12:16 PM   #54
JB Books
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Nemoaz are you using your commanding voice now?

Oh yes, I am Pollyana. The world is a bright and sunny place.

What I was referring to was my own experience with some of these folks while representing them for personal injury cases. I have no illusions they are choir boys and some may very well have been convicted of a crime. I don't care, if they are the victims of an accident caused by someone else's negligence, they have the same right to seek legal redress as anyone else.
Not my place to set myself up to think I am better or worse than anyone else unless either I have specific knowledge or experience about an individual. Also, my job is not to be anyone's moral compass.

Quite frankly, some of these guys and their families are a hell of a lot easier to deal with than some so-called religious people who praise Jesus on their answering machines, only to cuss at my staff and malingerer thinking that their wreck is a lottery ticket. I actually had one Bible college grad tell me Jesus told her she would get rich through her wreck. She later called one of my legal assistants an obscene name because we refused to put the arm on a doctor to write her a script more more pain meds.

And yes, all is well as long as I get my cut. The bigger, the better.
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Old April 13, 2008, 12:29 PM   #55
Covert Mission
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Quote:
Some of these guys have done a nickel or more up at the gladiator academy and are using every second to determine if they can 1) run 2) overpower me or 3) drawn down and fire on me.
Interesting point, sir. Anyone who's spent time on the street in hardcore gang territory knows this. Of course, the libs will accusing you of "profiling" when instead, it's good police work and knowing your "clientele". While you can't assume someone you stop, who looks like John or Mary Q. Citizen, isn't instead a bankrobber, or just murdered their spouse or whatever, you can often identify the hardcore BGs immediately. The "wannabes" and lookalikes have to prove themselves otherwise, but are treated with extreme caution until then, a choice they've made for themselves by mode of dress and demeanor.

The best cops I've known exude self-confidence without being cocky, authority without being authoritarian, strength through strong presence, and tell their contacts "I am in charge now. We can take this to any level you choose" and maintain control and prevail, using the appropriate level of force and be totally professional the whole time. The people who accuse them of being "jackbooted thugs" have issues...some people just hate any kind of authority, no matter how professional. That's a hard way to go through life.
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Old April 13, 2008, 12:46 PM   #56
Covert Mission
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Having said that, I have represented Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos for wrecks, they or family members, were involved in.
Even criminal have rights, of course. I just don't like outlaw bikers, period. The biggest organized crime group in Canada, for example, is the Hell's Angels. The Bandidos and Mongols, et al, are what they are...criminal gangs, no debate. Maybe your clients have been polite and well-paying, but in the end they are still criminal scumbags, and I couldn't be a defense lawyer or represent them for that reason. My personal blind spot. I don't like criminals, great clients or not, though I do understand they have the right to redress if wronged. Someone else would have to represent them other than me, I think.

I do hear you, re: your other examples of bad clients. I'm sorry some of them call themselves "Christian" when they behave like that; they are not. Christians--and I call myself one--are never perfect, but there are too many hypocrites in the world, and too many Christians among them. Of course, we are commanded to "love our neighbor" even if they are Hell's Angels...no easy task. Hate the sin, love the sinner. They will he judged by a higher authority than Man's Law, I believe, and I wouldn't want to be them. Those who work in prison ministry have my admiration, working with the worst of the worst.
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Old April 13, 2008, 01:03 PM   #57
JohnKSa
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Ok, this one is now officially off topic.
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