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Old December 6, 2007, 02:50 PM   #1
314EPW
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Win 296 powder

I'm loading a 454 Casull with Win 296 31.5 gr.I'm using Hornady 250 gr. jhp.In cold weather(below 20 degees)I'm not getting a full burn,little round of gold beaded powder left in barrel,and some in the cylinders.On the bottom of the paper work that came with the Lee 454 dies was a small statement stateing to use mag primers with this powder.No loading manual that i have including Lee, and The new Hornady state this.I figured it at least should be in the Lee manual!!

Anyone use mag primers with this powder in the 454 Casull?
thanks
Ed
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Old December 6, 2007, 02:53 PM   #2
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WW296/H-110 is notoriously hard to light off, so most people use magnum primers. I almost always use standard primers, but I hardly ever use WW296 anymore.
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Old December 6, 2007, 03:05 PM   #3
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I am having the same problem but in .357 @ 80*
Im using cci 550 magnum primers and theirs still alot of unburnt powder left in the barrel and cyl.
Someone told me to try the lee factory crimp die and i did and its still dirty.
I tried diff bullet weights but not the charge weight, im gunna keep experamenting with this stuff untill its gone.
I just started reloading but I was told by my father to always use a magnum primer with 296.
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Old December 6, 2007, 04:08 PM   #4
Mike Irwin
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Use magnum primers and increase your crimp strength.

I've used a lot of 296 over the years and I like it very much.
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Old December 6, 2007, 04:33 PM   #5
314EPW
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g primers

Did I mis-read or is this infro not in the reloading manuals?
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Old December 6, 2007, 04:51 PM   #6
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If a load manual says standard primers only are required for WW296, I would question that load manual. You should always use magnum primers with the possible exception of Winchester Large Pistol primers which are about a standard and a half or only sightly sub-magnum.

The above is for calibers that use pistol primers. However, the 454 Casull is designed to use small rifle primers which are at least equivalent to small pistol magnum primers. Are you using rifle primers?

A Mike said, a good strong crimp is also a must.
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Old December 6, 2007, 05:21 PM   #7
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Not to hijack this thread but what am i doing wrong then
I used a tight factory crimp magnum primers and my barrel is full of unburnt powder.
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Old December 6, 2007, 05:32 PM   #8
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tomh1426 - what weight of W296 and bullet weight/type are you using in your .357 Mag loads?
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Old December 6, 2007, 05:35 PM   #9
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I'm in Mike Irwin's camp on this one. If you read the loading instructions in the WW data booklets it specifically recommends a magnum primer and high bullet pull (heavy crimp) for all 296 loads. 296 is one of the best slow powders for magnum cartridges, and the loading caveats are included in the booklet for good reason. I haven't loaded for a 454 as I no longer have my CCL or handguns, but I loaded thousands of rounds with 296 when I did. Follow the instructions, and it works just fine. I had some unburned powder in my guns also, and that is just one of the quirks of the powder. It certainly burns cleaner than 2400 if loaded correctly. CB.
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Old December 6, 2007, 06:36 PM   #10
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180 grain nosler silhouettes over 12.9 grains of 296
158 grain nosler hp over 13 grains of 296
158 grain berrys plated hp over 13 grains of 296
I used the lee factory crimp die and cci 550 primers in all of em.
I tried both 158 grain bullets over 6.5 grains of bullseye and it was much much cleaner.
thanks, Tom
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Old December 6, 2007, 08:38 PM   #11
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Also, when using ww296, use full loads and heavy bullets.

NEVER use 296 in .38 special, squib city!
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Old December 6, 2007, 09:13 PM   #12
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You are using Winchester 296 powder...Use Winchester Large Pistol Primers... You should use close to Max loads with 296 according to Winchester although I have loaded hundreds @ 5% reduced load without a problem.
I don't know how 'hot' WLP primers are, but I use them for ALL powders from reduced load 231 ect. in .44mag and .357, to reduced and max loads using AA9, H110, and 296 ect. and have NEVER had a misfire in the Thousands of rounds I've fired in competition. What works...works.
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Old December 7, 2007, 12:38 AM   #13
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tomh - all of the loads you listed appear to me to be at least one full grain short of the recommended load for W296 and the bullets you are using. Where did the load specs come from?

Try increasing the powder weight looking for pressure signs and see if the unburned powder problem still exists.

W296 (and H110) are great powders, but they have a personality unlike most others. They work best under pressure, but they need a real kick in the pants to get moving. Otherwise they fizzle out and refuse to complete the job.
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Old December 7, 2007, 01:02 AM   #14
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I got the 180 grain over 12.9grains from my father and i believe he got it from his sierra book
Those were actually my very first reloads ever.
I got the 158/13 from http://stevespages.com/357_1_158.html
It says 10.2-17 grains so i went with 13.
i just got a few good reloading books so ill be trying diff charge weights.
Ill try reloading some at 14 and some at 15 grains and see what happens.
Thanks, Tom
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Old December 7, 2007, 09:34 AM   #15
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Ok, going to the possible same source, Sierra suggests a min of 15.9 gr and a max of 17.3. That's a lot more in line with what 296 loads should be with that bullet.

As for Steve Ricciardelli - shame on him! I know he knows better than to download W296 like that. His load for H110 is even worse - 8.6 to 17.7. If you start at that minimum, I can almost guarantee one squib in a few hundred loads.
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Old December 7, 2007, 09:36 AM   #16
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314EPW - again, are you using rifle primers in your .454 C loads?
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Old December 7, 2007, 03:53 PM   #17
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Wow, thanks I had no idea i was that light.
I got like 4-5 books but im not supposed to know about them untill x-mas.
I just got some primers so im gunna skip right up to 16 grains
Thanks again, Tom
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Old December 7, 2007, 05:37 PM   #18
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tomh1426; check the WW data booklet. You can load 14.0 to 14.5 of 296 with lead 150 or 158 bullets in the 357. I have used those loads for years, and have not had a problem. Just follow the booklet. Load exactly as shown. I shot 16.6 of 296 and 158 jacketed in the 357 for years. CB.
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Old December 7, 2007, 07:08 PM   #19
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I havent reloaded any lead yet but i want to.
I just loaded some 158 grain noslers over 16 grains of 296.
Cant wait to tryem out, thats a full 3 grains more than befor.
Reloading is fun, I shoot twice as much now
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Old December 7, 2007, 07:20 PM   #20
314EPW
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small rifle primers

Mal H...yes I am using winchester small rifle primers.I guess I'll switch to CCi 450?
Ed
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Old December 7, 2007, 07:40 PM   #21
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You can give them a try, but CCI 400's should be sufficient to fire off W296. All of the talk about using magnum primers, including mine, was for W296 when used in calibers other than .454 Casull, e.g., .44 Mag, .357 Mag, .45 Colt, etc. As you know, those calibers use pistol primers, not rifle primers.

Maybe it is the cold weather that's causing the problem.
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Old December 8, 2007, 12:18 AM   #22
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The only time I ever stuck a bullet in a barrel was with a full load of H110 behind a 158 grain bullet in a .357. Setting off a standard primer resulted in slightly burnt powder jammed into the forcing cone. Burns a "lot" better with magnum primers. - Phil
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