The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 27, 2007, 06:53 PM   #1
gunner79
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2007
Location: JBLM, WA
Posts: 122
Auto Ordnance thompson 1927a1 are they any good

hi to all of you out there i was checking out an Auto Ordnance thompson 1927a1 at a shop today are they any good do they take gi mags please give me some feedback thanks!
gunner79 is offline  
Old July 27, 2007, 11:22 PM   #2
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 6,829
You'll get a wide range of opinion on the Auto Ordnance.
Some will tell you the Kahr Arms guns are junk, buy an older Numrich Arms versions.

Others will say the Numrich guns are junk buy a Kahr.
There have been some complaints about Kahr guns having problems, but this seems to be dying out as Kahr corrects the problems.

Most complaints are about the weight of the gun, the long barrel, the heavy springs in the action, and the heavy trigger pull.

The gun is HEAVY, but so was the original SMG. Both are made of solid milled steel and American walnut, and ARE heavy.

The barrel is long, due to Federal law demanding a minimum of a 16" barrel on rifles. If you have the money, and live in a "good" state, Kahr sells SBR's (Short Barreled Rifles) with the same 10" barrel as used on the SMG.

The action has very stiff, heavy springs due to the action design, made necessary to get the BATF to allow them to make a gun that uses quite a few modified full-auto parts.

The trigger pull is heavy and stiff, again this is a function of the odd action design.
The action and trigger are stiff, and there's not much you can do about it. Installing lighter springs doesn't work without some heavy gunsmithing and alterations so you just have to live with it.

The gun is usually quite accurate, and has virtually no recoil due to the cartridge and the gun's weight.
It's a HOOT to shoot and always draws a crowd at the range.

As to the magazines:
On magazines you have four choices:
1. Buy Kahr Arms magazines. (EXPENSIVE). These are usually just surplus magazines, altered to fit the gun and refinished.

2. Buy USGI 20 or 30 round magazines and file the magazine catch hole upward a tiny bit until the magazine catch will lock into the hole.
(The semi-auto gun has a different height receiver to prevent using full-auto action parts, and this makes the magazines not fit unless altered).

3. Alter the stock magazine catch. Simply file the top of the catch until it will lock into stock GI magazines.

4. Replace the stock magazine catch with a full-auto magazine catch. The full-auto catch is a drop-in part.

GI surplus 50 round drums will usually work well as long as they're in good shape.
The newer commercial magazines may need to be "tweaked" to get them to work reliably.

On drum magazines DO NOT over-fill them. They'll hold 50 rounds, do not put in more.

The drum is NOT a clock spring system.
DO NOT "re-wind" a partially fired drum or the spring will break.
Wind the drum to the number of "clicks" listed on the drum lid and don't re-wind until the drum is empty.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old July 27, 2007, 11:47 PM   #3
oldbillthundercheif
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2006
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,450
I wish I could say "yeah, they are great", but I was unfortunate enough to buy one so I can't do that.

Mine was totally worthless at the range. Extremely accurate, but totally unreliable. Three trips back to the factory did not change that. After I sent it back to Kahr for a fourth time, they finally agreed to send me a new rifle, but only after six or eight months of haggling and the owner of the local gunshop threatening to suspend payment on Kahr-related transactions until they fixed the situation.

They look nice on a shelf, but they are not built to shoot. If you can't test-fire it to verify that it functions, pass on the headache and buy something that will work.
oldbillthundercheif is offline  
Old July 28, 2007, 12:52 AM   #4
cloudcroft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 562
It's too bad the Marlin Camp Gun in 45ACP was discontinued...

-- John D.
cloudcroft is offline  
Old July 29, 2007, 06:38 PM   #5
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,487
As I have posted elsewhere...

My gun is a Kahr, and works fine. Accurate, and feeds everything, at least from the 30 rnd mags. My drum needs some "tweaking", and is not yet 100%.

One problem I did have, extractor broke. Got another one (actually two, one spare, just in case) from Numrich, and everything runs great now.

Can't do much about how stiff the action springs are, just live with it as it is. Trigger might be able to do something about, but I haven't tried yet.

The gun is actually a bit heavier than the SMG (6" more barrel), but other than holding it up, it is a lot of fun.

First generation SMG ergonomics (which means basically none), so the gun is awkward, and the controls must be worked correctly, or they won't work right (you can't just "slam" a mag in and have it lock, etc.)

Turns heads at the range, for sure. Most common comment? "Wow, that's heavy!". Gun goes over 12 pounds empty, eat your Wheaties.

Living history (or as close as the Feds will allow), enjoy it. I do!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 30, 2007, 11:24 PM   #6
duboy
Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 57
hey gunner79, i actually just bought one, a Kahr. took mine out and it was accurate and didn't FTF in at least 70 rounds (i dont' remember the exact number but around 70 back to back. i was only using the stick, not drum mag. i am very very happy with my purchase so far, i'm gonna get a lot of use out of it that is for sure :-) I was also concerned about reliability etc, but right now, i'm loving it. Yes, it is heavy, the bolt is heavy and the trigger is spongy, but i feel i will be getting a LOT of use out of it. i guess one day when i can actually afford a vintage thompson this one will get put away, but until then...
duboy is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 01:04 AM   #7
commiejoe81
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2007
Posts: 53
i had one. the firing pins always broke after about 500 rnds. the guide rod plate (that held the two guide rods) shattered after about 10k rnds, and the guide rod bent and broke out. one time they sent a firing pin that had a extra metal on the bottom part, so it would engage the sear(?) and never let go, so i had to poke all the roll pins out, and kind of shake things around until the sear (paw?) came loose and i was finally able to disassemble the gun. so after that i had to grind the firing pins down (the bottom part) so they wouldnt lock back onto the paw/sear. i may not be naming the part correctly, but nonetheless i finally returned it after about 2 yrs and 35k rnds.
commiejoe81 is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 02:52 AM   #8
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,160
Hey! Here's a question--maybe you can help me out....

I have the Thompson (Kahr) M1, with the stamped rear sight and the side-mounted charging handle. I want to replace the short stubby handle with a longer one (available from Kahr). Problem is, I can't figure out how to get the old handle out. Any tips?
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 03:35 AM   #9
commiejoe81
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2007
Posts: 53
umm, the one for the 1927a1 came out after you field stripped it, press the tab in back, slide gun half way apart, hold the paw down, then should slide apart, the take the guide rods out with springs the the block will slide all teh way back and the bolt handle fell out the top, the the firing pin and block(bolt) could be removed.
commiejoe81 is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 10:34 AM   #10
DPris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4,678
PMan,
I did that quite a while back on my Numrich M1, and I highly recommend it. But, been so long I can't recall how. The bolt handle should come out during regular disassembly, isn't it shown in the manual?
Denis
DPris is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 12:41 PM   #11
p99guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area)
Posts: 1,506
I had one of the M1927A1 Deluxe models made by auto ordnance....not only was it unreliable, wouldnt take G.I. mags without modifing them, but it had sharp edges and corners that wasnt user friendly...it would always find a way to make you bleed. for a carbine that out weighs a M1 Garand and shoots a mild for its weapon weight pistol cartridge...its rather a disappointment. Full Auto is the main thing that made folks put up with the shortcommings of the Tommygun....an AR15 survives loss of the full auto just fine, the tommygun dont....has very limited penetration as well.
better off with a Beretta .45 carbine, or Marlin camp gun.
__________________
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"
p99guy is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 01:07 PM   #12
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 6,829
Here's a link to an owner's manual for the semi-auto Thompsons:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/thomson_tommy.pdf

The only real difference between the 1927-A1 and the M1 version is that the bolt handle is removed out the side of the M1 instead of out the top of the 1927-A1.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 05:04 PM   #13
commiejoe81
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2007
Posts: 53
just buy a hk usc45.
i had one, spent so much money on it though.
commiejoe81 is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 05:39 PM   #14
BUSTER51
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2004
Location: PHOENIX, AZ
Posts: 992
Sub guns that only fire in semi auto are a drag,the Thompson is very heavy and not made right anymore .you would do better with an UZI or MAC10 .the H&K is probably the current king of sub guns ,but will cost big bucks . a high cap 45 pistol would be a more usefull weapon. a Remington 870 or Mosberg 500 is a far better defensive weapon . now a full auto sub gun in 45 that's a differant story .
BUSTER51 is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 07:51 PM   #15
oldbillthundercheif
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2006
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,450
The UMP45 is deffinately not the king o' subguns. It looks like a plastic trashcan and takes ONLY special 10-round magazines.

Bleh.
oldbillthundercheif is offline  
Old July 31, 2007, 10:08 PM   #16
BUSTER51
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2004
Location: PHOENIX, AZ
Posts: 992
how bout the .45 cal MP5 . I could have sworn I have seen one of those .
BUSTER51 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09668 seconds with 9 queries