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Old July 24, 2007, 02:52 PM   #26
ibfestus
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I am afraid hunting is an endangered sport...

There are fewer hunters every year while more rich guys are doing the canned hunt thing. One possible reason for that is here in the midwest and southeast there seems to be less and less private landowners that will allow non family members to hunt. Personally, I solved that problem 11 years ago when I got out of Dodge and moved to the country.

Regretfully, the hunting I do now is very similar to the canned hunt in that I know exactly where the animals are going to be and when. For example I can take you to a spot about 6' in diameter where the biggest buck in the area will have a scrape next November. On one side of me there is a 300 acre row crop farm, on the other is a 240 acre cattle operation. I own the 60 acres of timber and brush in between where all the game sleeps. One year my family members killed 14 deer in the 10 day season and I still counted 21 in my yard the next day.

There are way too many deer in the midwest and they need to be thinned. In fact there is NO LIMIT on how many antlerless you can legally shoot. Everybody in Missouri knows somebody who was killed in a car/deer collision.
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Old July 24, 2007, 07:04 PM   #27
taylorce1
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Playboypenguin, I’ll agree with you that having a UN ban on the trade of Ivory and having armed soldiers protecting the elephants did increase their numbers more than trophy hunting has. But I will still say that trophy hunting used properly as a conservation tool will increase the quality of game animals in a given region. Adult elephants have no natural predators other than man; I doubt any predator in Africa can bring down a full grown healthy elephant.

I did read where herd size is now becoming a problem in areas because the land can no longer support the herds. I’d rather see a trophy hunters pay there fees and hunt these animals than to see them die of starvation and disease. Disease will wipe out the elephants faster than man can in most cases.

I did the research that you asked and I can’t come up with any hard numbers that say hunting increases herd size. I couldn’t find any facts that said controlled trophy hunting of elephants was detrimental to herd size either. I feel strongly that if the money from the trophy fees is distributed properly to the people of the local villages then the elephant has more worth to the locals as a manageable resource rather than the illegal ivory trade. Like most governments around the world Africa has it share of corruption and I’ll not say all the money gets distributed equally in practice.

Farmers and Ranchers make common practice of culling herds of livestock to improve genetics, age, and fertility. This allows the animals that they produce to be of better quality than what they had before. As hunters why can’t we do the same if we practice good herd management on game animals?

I never said that a person had to like to hunt any of the animals that you mentioned. I just said as hunters we can’t disapprove of hunting these animals. Hunting is a privilege not a right that we have in our country. To say it is ok to stop all hunting of a certain species because you don’t approve of it, then you are opening the door to stop the ones you do approve of.

I don’t like hunting birds, but I wouldn’t go as far to say I don’t approve of it. I just choose to let the people who do enjoy bird hunting to have my share. I do predator hunt but mainly to protect my family’s livelihood, as they still own a working cattle ranch. Granted the impact on our cattle herd from predators is minimal, but I’m not going to let it become a major problem by not trying to control them.

FF as far as Apex Predators, well I feel that is man in any environment. Ever since man first started using tools we have figured out how to adapt to pretty much all environments. Since man figured out how to fashion a spear and knife we pretty much haven’t found anything we can’t kill, so I figure that puts us at the top of the food chain. The only difference between us and the predators that hunt is we rarely have to do it for the food. Sure I like to eat deer and elk as much as the next guy but I don’t need it for survival.
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Old July 24, 2007, 07:47 PM   #28
Art Eatman
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For some info of the deal with elephants, go to http://www.thehighroad.org and check the stickies at the top of the Hunting forum page.

For game animals, hunting increases herd size, but indirectly: If a game animal has some monetary value to residents of an area, it will be protected by these people as well as by laws.

In the U.S., most poachers are caught because some local resident either called a game warden to report an event, or provided information leading to the warden's being "at the right place at the right time" to catch a poacher. This reporting would not occur without the animals having some particular value to the person doing the calling.

So, for an elephant as a trophy, the $30,000 license fee is split between the government and the local area villagers. This has worked so well in some areas that the herds are growing beyond the carrying capacity of the available land, much as our whitetail deer have in some parts of the U.S.

I've kept the horns from a fair number of the bucks I've killed. I can still tell you the story of the days that I shot most of them. In that sense, they're immortal so long as I'm alive. Similarly, elephant tusks as trophies would be the same deal.

But somebody and I ate my Bambis, or would have eaten whatever Mr. Great Big that I'd kill. No waste. All I've done was target a particular type of buck, and I guess that's part of why "trophy hunting" in an ethical manner doesn't upset me.

, Art
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Old July 24, 2007, 10:00 PM   #29
FirstFreedom
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ibfestus, where are you now that you're "in the country"?
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Old July 24, 2007, 11:54 PM   #30
Selfdfenz
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Interetsing thread. Every duck I ever brought to bag, every quail, all the doves and all the deer and all the rest I've hauled home during my journey were trophies to me.

S-
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Old July 25, 2007, 03:36 AM   #31
ZeroJunk
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Those who seem to have some disdain for people who trophy hunt in the wild consider this.Here in NC we have a season a little over 3 1/2 months long.I like to hunt and will hunt a few hours most of those days.I like to kill 2 deer to eat and have wonderful places to do it.If I just wanted to meat hunt, my season would last less than a week if I did it during bow season.Or,if I waited until gun season it would last about 30 minutes just before dark on the first day of the season.Wouldn't that be fun.
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Old July 25, 2007, 05:28 AM   #32
phil mcwilliam
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I meat hunt, trophy hunt & have participated in pest control shooting.When specifically meat hunting you tend to select a young smaller animal as these are by far the tastiest & tenderest, and you still get a lot of meat as you tend to take all & use all. In trophy hunting you don't have to take an animal every time you go out- thats the whole point of "Trophy Hunting".I hunt in my favorite trophy hunting area & have only taken 1 animal in the last 5 years, passing up many inferior heads,& not shooting at any hinds.The last Trophy stag i shot I did take the back straps & hind quarters, but as it was in full rut, the meat wasn't the greatest.I hunt with a friend that owns a cattle ranch of 2,000 acres.The manager of the property himself shot over 60 wild pigs over the last 12 months- hardly any meat used, just a few hind quarters for dog food.Same fate for deer caught feeding on oats paddocks, although backstraps are usually taken.During times of drought many ranches have to cull game animals just to remain viable.A lot of the game animals culled on my friends ranch would not be economically viable to ship to the needy due to the remoteness of the property.No sense in offering the meat to the neighbours as they have the same problem, and besides these are cattle ranch's where the freezer is already full of meat.Hard to make a stand on Trophy Hunting meat use when pest culling is a legitament activity.
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Old July 25, 2007, 12:44 PM   #33
Playboypenguin
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I especially have no problem with trophy hunting if the hunter says to me "I just want the head so I butcher the meat and give it to a lower income family down the holler from us" or if they donate it to a shelter or school lunch program.

That is what my grandfather, uncles, and I did growing up. They enjoyed hunting and we always took more meat than we could ever possibly eat.

Luckily we lived in a rural part of Apalachia and there was always a poor family happy to take the meat. We even knew a butcher that would butcher them for free if he knew you were giving it away and had payed him to butcher your own meat.

When I was in grade school our local school would even accept meat from hunters. Alot of the kids were on the free lunch program and it provided a very good source of food for them and the rest of us. Meatball day happened alot during deer season.
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Old July 27, 2007, 12:16 AM   #34
454c
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I have no problem with trophy hunting so long as one person/groups idea of a trophy is not pushed on others by way of game laws.
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Old July 28, 2007, 03:30 PM   #35
srtrax
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I for one am not a trophy hunter per say. I'll talk deer, because at the moment that is about all the time i have in a years time to big game hunt. Now i use to wait plum up to the last day waiting on Mr, big and went home empty handed. Well, my family likes deer meat in everything we eat. That said, i kind of droped the horn issue and went with the idea of bringing home meat. Funny now because of this reasoning i have shot better and bigger deer because of this. I guess i have taken the presure of horn hunting and put it in the back of my mind, and for some reason i've become a better hunter or just damn lucky!
What i do have a problem with is going to the check station and seeing spikes and fork horns by the hand loads being checked in, if let be for a few years there would be better hunting,and game with horns to hunt. With in the 5 mile radius that i hunt the pressure on the deer is light, and the guys on the other side of the fence also dont shoot bambies, so our bucks are getting better ever year. So i take more of an issue of to small of game being taken! If a 150 class deer comes into my cross hairs hes going down, and if it's a spike it gets to walk.
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