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Old July 4, 2007, 09:41 AM   #1
gunzrfunz
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Beware of online ammo sites!

I recently thought I got a good deal on buying 38spl ammo from an online website. After they contacted me weeks later realizing they sent extra ammo, I informed them for the cost of me missing work to send the ammo back to them(as I can't rightly sit ammunition unguarded on my porch) I would be happy to assist them in correcting their mistake. I didn't think anything of it until this morning when I found an unauthorized charge on my credit card by them for the extra ammunition. This goes to show that giving your credit card out on the phone can come back and bite you in the arse. Not all businesses are honest and do not live up to the caliber(so to speak) one would expect. Beware of J&G Sales out of Prescott, AZ.
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Old July 4, 2007, 09:53 AM   #2
drewbuddy
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eh. i'd dispute the charges with your cc company. i'd also send a letter to the company, the better business bureau and the local pd for cc fraud. while they kind of do have a point (about needing payment for the extra ammo), it's their mistake and their responsibility to correct it. if you had worked out arrangements for you to return it, they can get into a crap load of trouble for hitting your cc.
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Old July 4, 2007, 10:22 AM   #3
KDM
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At the risk of sounding like a jerk and getting everyone mad at me, I'm kinda disputing the terms "credit card fraud" or "unauthorized charge". They did call you, telling of their bonehead mistake. That, in their point of view, was notification enough to add a charge. Most, if not all, companies I've dealt with will not accept ammo returns.

Did they change the price of the ammo/quantity of ammo mid-transaction? That'd be fraud. Did they charge you for something you didn't buy? That'd be fraud. I don't think they did anything wrong, necessarily. They were impatient and less than willing to wait for return shipment (if they even allow that).
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Old July 4, 2007, 10:26 AM   #4
honkeoki
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The title of your post is "Beware of online ammo sites!" What you really mean is, "J&G Sales screwed up and screwed me."

BTW, the advice given about disputing the charge with your credit card company will most likely work, especially if it's an American Express card. I work in ecommerce and we get disputed charges for similar reasons all the time. It only takes a phone call.

OT: I see so many posts that are titled, "Taurus revolvers are junk" or "Kahr=krap" when what the person is really complaining about is one example of bad craftsmanship, or bad customer service. I think a little more accuracy in our titles and posts would go a long way toward making the Internets a better place for getting worthwhile info.
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Old July 4, 2007, 11:11 AM   #5
gunzrfunz
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Quote:
KDM
At the risk of sounding like a jerk and getting everyone mad at me, I'm kinda disputing the terms "credit card fraud" or "unauthorized charge". They did call you, telling of their bonehead mistake. That, in their point of view, was notification enough to add a charge. Most, if not all, companies I've dealt with will not accept ammo returns.

Did they change the price of the ammo/quantity of ammo mid-transaction? That'd be fraud. Did they charge you for something you didn't buy? That'd be fraud. I don't think they did anything wrong, necessarily. They were impatient and less than willing to wait for return shipment (if they even allow that).
1) I ordered and payed for 500 rounds. They sent 1000 then 3weeks later charged on my cc for the extra 500 I didn't order nor authorize charges on my cc. That is "unauthorized charge".

2) They asked for ammo to be returned, and I said fine as long as they covered my expense to do so, they never replied and a week later put unauthorized charge on my cc. To me, that's THEFT!

3) If you believe they didn't do anything wrong, then I'm afraid your sense of what is right and what is wrong is screwed up and I wouldn't have any dealings with you as well.
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Old July 4, 2007, 11:19 AM   #6
shortydog
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I informed them for the cost of me missing work to send the ammo back to them(as I can't rightly sit ammunition unguarded on my porch) I would be happy to assist them in correcting their mistake.
Sooo.... Lets here the whole story.
How much did you want to charge them to guard that ammo on the porch?

Quote:
Not all businesses are honest and do not live up to the caliber(so to speak) one would expect.
Quote:
After they contacted me weeks later realizing they sent extra ammo
Sooo...You do not contact them regarding their mistake{Keeping something that is not yours}and then complain that there not being honest?

Last edited by shortydog; July 4, 2007 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Irony
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Old July 4, 2007, 11:33 AM   #7
MrBorland
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Sooo...You do not contact them regarding their mistake{Keeping something that is not yours}and then complain that there not being honest?
Yep - that's pretty much it. The rest of the story is below. Let's not feed the trolls.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282144
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Old July 4, 2007, 11:37 AM   #8
JWT
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Why would the ammo have to sit on your porch? Aren't there any Fed Ex or UPS stores where you could ship it from?

Not 100% in agreement that they did anything fraudulent. They did make a mistake in sending the incorrect amount of ammo but gave you a choice to keep it or return it. Doesn't sound like you were 100% honest if you waited until you heard from them 'weeks later.

MrBorlands link seems to 'say it all'. 'Nuff said'
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Old July 4, 2007, 11:41 AM   #9
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I'm sorry, but I just have to call BS on this, well actually scream BS.

Did you call them when you got the messed up order?

How was the ammo delivered to you? You took a day off to recieve 500 rounds? Or did you have it shipped somewhere, like say work, where you could just as easily send it from or have it picked up from?

Are there not post offices, kinkos, the ups store or whatever where you live where a shipment could be tendered over the counter? Your request for payment to stay home from work is frankly outlandish when there are any number of other alternatives that do not involve that expense.

Yeah there was a screw up, no harm, no foul, maybe you thought you got 500 rounds free... would have been nice after all; turns out that you did not and the seller wants either money from you or a return shipment... what would YOUR solution to this be other than the suggesting of them paying you to stay home? Did your offer anything other than give me 500 rounds free or pay me to stay home... neither of which are what I would call charitable or gentalmanly solutions to this dispute.

Frankly I think that your argument is essentally attempting to storng arm their mistake all the way in your favor so they say scew it keep the ammo.. now it has not worked so you want to smear them on the internet, sorry it ain't fraud and it's also not the kind of thing that takes internet posts, credit card disputes or anything like that for most of us here in the world to resolve.

Sorry I work in customer service and not everything is a capitol case, and you don't get comptensated for every last little hair on your back side that gets ruffled in life because of some minor screw up, if this one screw up has soured you on the vendor fine, don't use them but pay for what is in your posession or send it back on their dime for shipping without making outlandish demands for further comptensation,... Frankly your argument here makes about as much sense to me as the judge that wanted 52 million for a lost pair of pants.
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Old July 4, 2007, 12:01 PM   #10
Trapper L
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Obviously, gunzrfunz never learned the words HONOR and HONESTY. I'm sure that some where in his childhood he was depraved of this learning experience. But he has no place in a forum like this or anywhere else. This forum and its subject matter is all about fairness, honesty, and doing the right thing. It is a sport that we celebrate together. He doesn't know what being a good sport is. I can't imagine what it's like to celebrate over a companies mistake, then expect to be compensated for time, and then slander the good folks. Must be something in his childhood. Best of luck in life though, you're gonna need it.
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Old July 4, 2007, 12:10 PM   #11
gvf
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State Ag

If the place is in your state: file a complaint with State Attorney General.

But because it's internet, fraud is a federal violation. Go look on the web. There is a site - and it may be FBI's - that handles internet fraud. And as has been said, file compaint with your CC company. I got back a $1200 charge on a defective item on Ebay.

They used the US Mail? It's Mail Fraud. File complaint with US Post Office as well.

Go get these people!

But the internet is like the Wild West. I just bought a gun online for the first time, and until it arrives and I see it if IS New In The Box, I'm nervous about it.
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Old July 4, 2007, 12:27 PM   #12
JWT
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Where's the fraud. They shipped the incorrect quantity, buyer did not acknowledge and waited until seller realized mistake. Buyer did not want to return goods or pay for them. That's fraud???

Trapper L is correct in his assessment.
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Old July 4, 2007, 12:41 PM   #13
John28226
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Trapper - PLUS 1

I have read all the postings including the ones from The High Road. You said it well, Trapper. I am afraid that the receipant of the extra ammo is equating the lack of criticism with approval. I don't think that is true. I can't speak for anyone else but part of my job is to screen out potential employees that would be problem makers and not problem solvers. I don't think keeping something that you have not paid for would enable someone to make that cut.

I mail order a lot of stuff and, on occasion, I have had items shipped in error. It is always a good feeling to call the company and tell them when the mistake is in my favor. They seem genuinely pleased, even more so when I ask them how they want to handle "making it right". Most of the shipments that I receive include a shipping paid return label (in case you are not satisified with the merchandise) so sending stuff back is simple and cost free.

I once returned a damaged dehumidified to the original shipper; since the box they used was destroyed by FedEx (on the way to me) I put the item, original box and copy of the invoice in a box I had that had contained an order from Midway USA. I thought I marked out all of the Midway labels, but I had missed one.

Instead of delivering the package to the intended receipant, FedEx delivered it to Midway. Someone there opened it, found the contents to be not intended for them and called me to let me know what had happened. They then reboxed the package and sent it on to the intended company - all without asking me for any payment for the shipping or their labor.

Needless to say, Midway gets all the business that I can give to them.

Point is, honesty really is the best policy. And the person who told J & G did the right thing, too.

gvf - did you read the entire thread? It appears that you have the wrong victim.

John
Charlotte, NC
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:01 PM   #14
MrBorland
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When a vendor makes a mistake like this, I believe they have the legal right to either charge for the extra shipment, or accept the merchandise back, provided they (the vendor) pay for the return shipping. According to Gunz, he agreed to cooperate, but also asked to be compensated for missed work. The vendor obviously wasn't interested in compensating for missed work, so they took the liberty of interpreting his response to mean he wanted to keep the ammo. Yes, perhaps, the vendor should've informed Gunz of their decision, but it isn't fraud, and all things considered, I don't give Gunz too much sympathy on this one.

The decision to keep the extra ammo and say nothing is one thing, and I'll not say anything more on that. What I have a bigger problem with is the way Gunz has handled this entire situation from the start, as well as his general rancor and bad manners on other threads on this forum and on THR. You'll notice he didn't post his complaint on THR, either as a new thread, or as a new post on the original thread, where the issue initially came to head. Nope, it was posted here, where he could leave out some details, and get some sympathy.

I rarely get involved in things like this, but in this case, I have to make an exception. I respectfully ask Gunz to cool down before typing future posts and start showing forum members some manners and respect.
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:12 PM   #15
gunzrfunz
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The vendor obviously wasn't interested in compensating for missed work, so they took the liberty of interpreting his response to mean he wanted to keep the ammo. Yes, perhaps, the vendor should've informed Gunz of their decision, but it isn't fraud
Wrong. Unauthorized cc charging is theft, a crime. Them not responding to me email and waiting till day before a holiday to "slip in" a cc charge hopefully w/o detection is dishonest, deceptive and illegal.

Quote:
What I have a bigger problem with is the way Gunz has handled this entire situation from the start, as well as his general rancor and bad manners on other threads on this forum and on THR. You'll notice he didn't post his complaint on THR, either as a new thread, or as a new post on the original thread, where the issue initially came to head. Nope, it was posted here, where he could leave out some details, and get some sympathy.
The reason I didn't post on THR is because of the person who reported this to J&G Sales , also sent moderators the PRIVATE MESSAGES sent to him by me and got me banned. So, basically your analysis is WRONG, and looking for "sypathy" by me is also..WRONG.
Basically, I give respect where given, and respond to insults with such in kind.
I have been totally honest in reporting of events and my positions. I cannot, however, say the same for the ppl slinging mud in my direction, as I am POSITIVE that if such an occurence happened to them, they would not be so forthcoming as they are so high-and-mighty claiming to be.
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:19 PM   #16
JohnKSa
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When a vendor makes a mistake like this, I believe they have the legal right to either charge for the extra shipment, or accept the merchandise back, provided they (the vendor) pay for the return shipping.
If someone ships a person something he did not order it does not place the recipient under any sort of legal obligation to correct the error.

In fact, making an unsolicited shipment to a person and then trying to make them pay for it is a form of mail fraud.

From the USPS website: "Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication."

Think about it. Any company could double their sales by sending out twice the amount of each order and then billing the recipients. Then, if the recipient refused to pay, they simply force him to ship back the unsolicited amount.

And, btw, for those of you who've never done it, shipping ammunition can be a surprising hassle.

Not endorsing/supporting the actions/attitudes of the original poster, just throwing some facts out. And I'm talking about LEGALITIES, not what's moral or reasonable.
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:20 PM   #17
JWT
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mmmmmm.... not advising a seller that they incorrectly sent additional ammunition and keeping it is not in any way deceptive or dishonest?? Guess different people have different definitions of honesty???
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:27 PM   #18
gunzrfunz
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JWT
mmmmmm.... not advising a seller that they incorrectly sent additional ammunition and keeping it is not in any way deceptive or dishonest?? Guess different people have different definitions of honesty???
de·cep·tive
Pronunciation: di-'sep-tiv
Function: adjective
: tending or having power to deceive : MISLEADING <a deceptive appearance>
- de·cep·tive·ly adverb
- de·cep·tive·ness noun

Don't quite know where I was "deceptive" here, but your the expert(apparently)

dis·hon·est /dɪsˈɒnɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dis-on-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. not honest; disposed to lie, cheat, or steal; not worthy of trust or belief: a dishonest person.
2. proceeding from or exhibiting lack of honesty; fraudulent: a dishonest advertisement.

Again. Your the moral authority here, supposedly.
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:32 PM   #19
John28226
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Time to Lock this Thread

Gunz, at the risk of stating the obvious, let me ask you, if you had ORDERED 1000 and only received 500 (but were billed for 1000) would you have kept quiet and ignored the error? What would YOU have the shipper do? Tell you to keep the overage?

Does the fact that THR moderators booted you off the forum not indicate to you that just maybe, maybe, you might be the one that is in the wrong?

I know that I could be wrong but I happen to believe that most of the members of this forum would immediately contact the shipper and tell them of the mistake; I also believe that none of them would have tried to hold up the shipper for a day off from work with pay. People like to throw about legal sounding words (especially when they are in the wrong) so let me add one for you, extortion. It really does not apply but neither does the word fraud.

Case closed.

Edit: JohnKsa - the regulation to which you refer was intended to apply to those companies that send items WHICH ARE NOT ORDERED but then billed. I don't believe that it applies to overshipments of items that were ordered. Maybe the company could have taken a different course of action but I don't think what they did falls into the catagory you describe.

John
Charlotte, NC
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:42 PM   #20
gunzrfunz
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Case opened. Them shorting me for what I paid for and them shipping me what I didn't is not the same thing. Not at all.
As far as the moderators booting me, it is only because of the guy that reported the overage to J&G (sour grapes because it wasn't him) received PRIVATE MESSAGES from me that I was booted, nothing else.
Once again, read before you post. I never stated fraud. I stated THEFT, which is what unauthorized cc charge is, plain and simple. J&G tried to sneak in a cc charge just before a holiday w/o my knowledge or confirmation. They did not try to deal with me or offer ANY sort of other resolution. It amazes me the bandwagon jumpers that say they would have "immediately notified the shipper of their mistake". You actually believe your own bs? I've been honest about everything , but a few of you high-and-mighties are full of s*** when you spout your crap. THAT is end of story.
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Old July 4, 2007, 01:45 PM   #21
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THAT is end of story.
Indeed.

gunzrfunz, check your PMs.
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