Slower powders and felt Recoil

Crazy4nitro · May 9, 2007, 01:20 PM

maybe i searched the wrong keywords but here goes...

Does slower burning powder yield more "Felt" recoil?

I ask because I was loading Bullseye under 180gr LSWC and I picked up a pound of Unique. I loaded a full grain less then a Max load of 5.5. With 4.5gr of unique it felt like a Nuclear MallNinja Load compared to the other rounds I was shooting. I was actually surprised at the amount of recoil...

Thanks

Crazy4nitro

Shoney · May 9, 2007, 01:51 PM

Crazy4nitro

In order to help, we need more info!!!!

What cartridge are you loading?

What weapon are you using it in?

Castaway · May 9, 2007, 02:27 PM

Although Unique is slower than Bulls Eye, the difference is so slight and you would also have counteracting forces so you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in felt recoil. If you are loading the same bullet to the same velocity, you would be using more Unique. That equates to more recoil simply because you are accelerating a greater mass, but again, we are talking about 1 or 2 grains. I challenge anyone to say they can feel a difference between the two loads. In theory, the slower powder would extend the recoil impulse, but remember that extra grain of powder. Again, each difference is so, so slight it, in my opinion would be a wash.

Crazy4nitro · May 9, 2007, 04:56 PM

Shoney,
I'm a dummy....duh..lol

OK..I have a G23 .40S&W
and I have not shot these over a chrono so velocity is unknown...Thats a good point.

I Imagine if both were shooting in the mid 900's (wild guess) that the felt recoil would be the same roughly.

I'm looking for a good downloaded IDPA round,so I guess I will drop the charge a lil more and hope the pressure is still enough for efficient burn. when I achieve a lower recoil hopefully it still reliably cycles the slide while still burning correctly....I'm not askin for much am I?..

I changed powders as the Bullseye seemed to wanna leave lead in the first 3rd of the barrel. I dont know if it matters but Unique has not burned off the bullet base enough to leave any lead to speak of. Maybe it has noting to do with it.

I have an aftermarket Lone Wolf Barrel for shooting Lead reloads.

I have considered a 9mm drop in barrel but I dont really wanna go that route. Maybe I should just be a Real Man vs. trying to re-invent the entire round... LOL

Crazy4nitro

1tomcat · May 9, 2007, 05:15 PM

I load 2 loads for my 357 with unique and blue dot ( slower) and definately can tell the difference with loads of approx the same velocity, the blue dot loads have more of a shove than a sharp kickback

Castaway · May 10, 2007, 06:49 AM

1tomcat, Blue Dot is MUCH slower than Unique, unlike Bulls Eye vs. Unique. In that case there might be enough of a difference you can "feel" a difference in recoil impulse. By the way, what are the velocities of your two loads?

1tomcat · May 10, 2007, 04:34 PM

Castaway: both loads produce in the neighborhod of 1325 fps with 125 jhp
and the unique loads really hurt my hand whereas the blue dot load seems to just shove the pistol back, am shooting a model 28 nframe and have just ordered a set of rubber grips for it.

**Unclenick** · May 10, 2007, 11:27 PM

Slow powders always produce more felt recoil because the achieve a particular velocity by making more gas at a lower peak pressure. The peak is lower, but the pressure remaining as the bullet exits the muzzle is higher. So, the rocket engine effect from expelling the greater mass of propellant gas is greater. You can even tell the difference between Bullsye and N310 or Tightwad or Clays due to this. You wouldn't think you could, but you sure can.

Leading is more likely to be a bullet sizing problem. Even though it is standard practice to make cast bullets .001" oversize, the get knocked around in loading and it is not uncommon to find they need to be .002" or even .003" oversize to shoot without leading.

Nick

knightkrawler00 · May 11, 2007, 09:23 PM

As Unclenick stated, the difference can be quite noticeable between powders that are close to each other in burn rate. I can easily tell the difference between Titegroup and Clays in 9mm and 45acp. I think that it has a lot to do with noise, maybe more than what is felt. Clays makes a pop noise compared to TG in 9 and 45, and H-110 roars compared to TG in 357mag. That extra noise makes us percieve the recoil as being greater, so we "feel" it more.

amamnn · May 13, 2007, 06:35 PM

As noted above, the faster powders are going to lessen perceived recoil, but if you load below half max you get into load density problems. If you are just plinking, it will not matter much. If you are going to compete, you'll want to practice with the same load you use on match day. A good pair of shooting gloves is a must if you are going to compete; they'll help some.

May 9, 2007, 01:20 PM	#1
Crazy4nitro Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2007 Location: Lou-a-vul KY Posts: 142	Slower powders and felt Recoil maybe i searched the wrong keywords but here goes... Does slower burning powder yield more "Felt" recoil? I ask because I was loading Bullseye under 180gr LSWC and I picked up a pound of Unique. I loaded a full grain less then a Max load of 5.5. With 4.5gr of unique it felt like a Nuclear MallNinja Load compared to the other rounds I was shooting. I was actually surprised at the amount of recoil... Thanks Crazy4nitro

May 9, 2007, 01:51 PM	#2
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Crazy4nitro In order to help, we need more info!!!! What cartridge are you loading? What weapon are you using it in? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

May 10, 2007, 11:27 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,129	Slow powders always produce more felt recoil because the achieve a particular velocity by making more gas at a lower peak pressure. The peak is lower, but the pressure remaining as the bullet exits the muzzle is higher. So, the rocket engine effect from expelling the greater mass of propellant gas is greater. You can even tell the difference between Bullsye and N310 or Tightwad or Clays due to this. You wouldn't think you could, but you sure can. Leading is more likely to be a bullet sizing problem. Even though it is standard practice to make cast bullets .001" oversize, the get knocked around in loading and it is not uncommon to find they need to be .002" or even .003" oversize to shoot without leading. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

May 13, 2007, 06:35 PM	#10
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	As noted above, the faster powders are going to lessen perceived recoil, but if you load below half max you get into load density problems. If you are just plinking, it will not matter much. If you are going to compete, you'll want to practice with the same load you use on match day. A good pair of shooting gloves is a must if you are going to compete; they'll help some. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

May 9, 2007, 02:27 PM	#3
Castaway Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Dade City, FL Posts: 90	Although Unique is slower than Bulls Eye, the difference is so slight and you would also have counteracting forces so you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in felt recoil. If you are loading the same bullet to the same velocity, you would be using more Unique. That equates to more recoil simply because you are accelerating a greater mass, but again, we are talking about 1 or 2 grains. I challenge anyone to say they can feel a difference between the two loads. In theory, the slower powder would extend the recoil impulse, but remember that extra grain of powder. Again, each difference is so, so slight it, in my opinion would be a wash.

May 9, 2007, 04:56 PM	#4
Crazy4nitro Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2007 Location: Lou-a-vul KY Posts: 142	Shoney, I'm a dummy....duh..lol OK..I have a G23 .40S&W and I have not shot these over a chrono so velocity is unknown...Thats a good point. I Imagine if both were shooting in the mid 900's (wild guess) that the felt recoil would be the same roughly. I'm looking for a good downloaded IDPA round,so I guess I will drop the charge a lil more and hope the pressure is still enough for efficient burn. when I achieve a lower recoil hopefully it still reliably cycles the slide while still burning correctly....I'm not askin for much am I?.. I changed powders as the Bullseye seemed to wanna leave lead in the first 3rd of the barrel. I dont know if it matters but Unique has not burned off the bullet base enough to leave any lead to speak of. Maybe it has noting to do with it. I have an aftermarket Lone Wolf Barrel for shooting Lead reloads. I have considered a 9mm drop in barrel but I dont really wanna go that route. Maybe I should just be a Real Man vs. trying to re-invent the entire round... LOL Crazy4nitro

May 9, 2007, 05:15 PM	#5
1tomcat Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2005 Posts: 147	I load 2 loads for my 357 with unique and blue dot ( slower) and definately can tell the difference with loads of approx the same velocity, the blue dot loads have more of a shove than a sharp kickback

May 10, 2007, 06:49 AM	#6
Castaway Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Dade City, FL Posts: 90	1tomcat, Blue Dot is MUCH slower than Unique, unlike Bulls Eye vs. Unique. In that case there might be enough of a difference you can "feel" a difference in recoil impulse. By the way, what are the velocities of your two loads?

May 10, 2007, 04:34 PM	#7
1tomcat Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2005 Posts: 147	Castaway: both loads produce in the neighborhod of 1325 fps with 125 jhp and the unique loads really hurt my hand whereas the blue dot load seems to just shove the pistol back, am shooting a model 28 nframe and have just ordered a set of rubber grips for it.

May 11, 2007, 09:23 PM	#9
knightkrawler00 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Location: Prosser WA Posts: 103	As Unclenick stated, the difference can be quite noticeable between powders that are close to each other in burn rate. I can easily tell the difference between Titegroup and Clays in 9mm and 45acp. I think that it has a lot to do with noise, maybe more than what is felt. Clays makes a pop noise compared to TG in 9 and 45, and H-110 roars compared to TG in 357mag. That extra noise makes us percieve the recoil as being greater, so we "feel" it more.