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Old June 21, 2002, 02:07 PM   #1
dfaugh
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Anyone got 9mm +P+ formula?

Will be using 115-125 gr. cast, moly coated...not sure which ones yet...Trying to duplicate "Black Talon" loads, which are hard to get and expensive...oh yeah, Will be using in carbine only
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Old June 22, 2002, 11:22 AM   #2
Chemistry
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Why bother with the excessive pressures? There are many excellent powders that will give you the velocity without the exceeding standard pressure levels.

Here's a recipe you could easily use to get the velocity of the Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ load...

8.9 grains Hodgdon HS7
124 grain FMJ bullet (Remington works well for me)
COAL = 1.120"
Any standard small pistol primer
Crimp to 0.379" with Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die (do not use any heavier of a crimp with a hard jacketed bullet)

or

6.6 grains VV 3N37
124 grain FMJ bullet (Remington)
COAL = 1.142"
Any standard small pistol primer
Crimp to 0.379" with Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

Either of those loads will give you the velocity without exceeding the SAAMI max for standard pressure.
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Old June 22, 2002, 11:30 AM   #3
C.R.Sam
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Chemistry right.
The term +P+ relates to PEAK pressure only. Has little or no bearing on projectile performance.

Sam
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Old June 23, 2002, 02:25 PM   #4
dfaugh
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The reason I'm trying to duplicate the "Black Talon" loads, is that I get quite the velocity gain, outa (relatively) long carbine barrel
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You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you.
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you've got to go in after it, and never be denied.
Time is running out...Let's roll.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love.
We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth.
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Old June 23, 2002, 09:34 PM   #5
C.R.Sam
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Then you still don't need +P+ PEAK pressures.

For more velocity from a longer barrel you would be better served by a moderate pressure load with longer sustained max pressure.

Slower burning powder.

Sam
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Old June 25, 2002, 04:04 PM   #6
labgrade
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"Has little or no bearing on projectile performance."

... or velocity. +P (etc.) only relates to pressure & has zip for relationship to velocity/performance. Do take a look at some various reloading manuals & you'll see that even by "lawyered down" stuff, some +p data actually gives lower velocities than standard pressure loadings.

Likely, you'll see a significant enough increase in velocity just by using the carbine length barrel. Plenty good enough & if not, maybe get something a step up that will.

9mm cartridge can go ballistic pretty quick. A fairly high-intenstity cartridge which belies its size ....
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Old June 25, 2002, 07:17 PM   #7
C.R.Sam
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Or.........if you insist on higher performance from a 9mm.....switch to 9X32R. Whole nuther ball game.

Sam
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Old March 11, 2007, 10:24 PM   #8
Tengri
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For hs-7

Compare this class IV load for .38 super:

.38 super 124 grain BULL-X RN/LD 10.5 grains HS7 @ 1,505fps

To:

9mm 124 grain 8.9 HS7 @ 1244fps

Doable? Sure. But also look at the class III load listed as:

.38 super 124 speer TMJ 10.2 HS-7 @ 1,332

Not much difference in powder but with a 200fps difference. Looks like working up loads with the powder would need a bit of care. Almost the same above 9mm load with an even 8 grains of hs-7 will produce the same specs but with a 160 grain bullet! 160 grain 8.4 @ 1,240FPS and 170 grain using 8.3 grains of hs-7 @ 1,109fps.

10 grains of hs-7 would probably make a real good max load for 9mm but you would have to work up from the above 8.9 grains of hs-7. These need fully supported chambers BTW and were fired from 5" colt .38 supers.

For 124 +P+ in 9mm 9.6 grains of HS-6 might be better for the smaller casing?

These loads were part of .38 super loads published in the 1996 April-may issue of Handloader.

For the record 9mm PROOF is 124grain LEAD semi wad cutter gas checked @ 1,500fps 57,000PSIA. However, thats for testing barrels and I suspect that the use of a lead SWC is to create excessive barrel pressures to mimic obstructed barrel and see how the barrel handles the pressure throughout the entire barrel not just the chamber.. There is plenty of evidence that 9mm can handle up to 60,000PSIA without too much of an issue.
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Old March 12, 2007, 01:08 PM   #9
dfaugh
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Wow...I posted this 4 years ago,and I'm finally getting responses....

Anyway, The type of performance I'm talking about is 1600-1700 fps in a carbine. I have been given one recipe (Using 8+ grns of Blue Dot) that SUPPOSEDLY chronos in this range, AND is not a +P+ load. But I haven't tried it yet, so we'll see.
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"If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules"

"No one has the answer, but one thing is true.
You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you.
You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide,
you've got to go in after it, and never be denied.
Time is running out...Let's roll.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love.
We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth.
Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."
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Old March 12, 2007, 02:49 PM   #10
cheygriz
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In the 115-124 grain range, you should be able to get the equivalent of factory +P+ velocity at +p pressures with HS-6 in 115 and HS7 in 124.
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Old March 12, 2007, 11:41 PM   #11
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I think what I like most about this place is the timely information!

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Old March 13, 2007, 03:11 AM   #12
Hotdog1911
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I'll see your +P+, and raise you ++PP+, with molly too boot.
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Old March 13, 2007, 03:20 AM   #13
Hotdog1911
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How do you keep...

a home rolled 9X19 carbine round out of a unsuspecting 9X19 pistol chamber? It only takes one time.
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