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Old October 9, 1998, 11:25 PM   #1
Rob Pincus
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With CDS saying they will never sell .224 BOZ to civilians, but so many people interested in the cartrdige, whether it does what it claims or not, it certainly is a novelty.

I am just a basic reloader, but maybe someone out there is capable of designing a necked down pistol cartridge to a lightwieght rifle bullet that will work in a "standard" Semi-auto pistol (a'la Glock, Sig, USP, Govt Model, ..... NOT Desert Eagle, AR pistols, T/C contender, etc....).

maybe a .45 necked to .25 cal?
or a 9mm down to .17 Rem ?

any ideas?
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Old October 10, 1998, 12:47 AM   #2
EricGT
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There is a very good article on the .224 Boz in this month's issue of Guns&Ammo. The published specs on that round are breath-taking. It is hard to believe that a pistol round could penetrate the armor of Bradley IFV from 50 meters. That is a whle lot of cartridge. I am surprised that they didn't stick with the modified Glock model 20's, for their production weapon of choice, though...Eric

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 10-13-98).]
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Old October 10, 1998, 03:42 AM   #3
Matt K
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I have a buddy who shoots 9x25 dillon and he said you could make the 224 Boz as a wildcat cartridge. He didnt go into details though

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Old October 13, 1998, 09:28 PM   #4
Rob Pincus
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I have heard a few people say that the "could" duplicate the .224 BOZ. If someone can promise me a finished product I would pay for it. Or anything close, I like the idea, it is pretty novel. I just found out that some early Coonans were chambered in .256 Win Mag and the numbers look very close.

I spoke (via Email) with one of the main guys at CDS a few months ago, when the .224 BOZ story "broke" on the internet, he said that the Glock 20's frame wasn't standing up to the abuse of the cartridge, so they discontinued it as a testing platform. Surprised me too!
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Old October 14, 1998, 08:19 PM   #5
DIRK
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Duplicating the .224 BOZ is very possible. You only need to find someone to make loading dies and someone to make a reamer for the chamber of the barrel. There may be some copyright agreemants with various companies that manufacture the reamers and dies. Many times to get around that, all you would need to do is alter the angle of the shoulder and you have a different cartridge. Or call it a different name. As far as the .224 BOZ's ability to penatrate different types of armor, that is not difficult. It takes the proper bullet with a high enough velocity. Back in the 70's Colt was working on something very similar, but could not find a market. The gun was called the SCAMP. I don't remember the meaning of the acronym. A couple of yeras ago FN was looking at producing a high velocity pistol round that could defeat different types of armor. If you look through some of the books on reloading and cartridges, you can find a bunch of different ideas that will do the same thing as the .224 BOZ. For reamers you need to check with Clymer manufacturing. Most companies will do wildcat dies, RCBS, 4CH come to mind right now. Price is the next consideration. This is usually not cheap.
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Old October 19, 1998, 11:05 AM   #6
chargar
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Think twice before jumping on the 224 BOZ bandwagon. With this rounds ability to pierce current body armor (which is why the Brits designed it), it is certain to trigger another round of media hysteria about cop killers bullets with the resultant cry for restrictive legeslation and all the fall out from that. While from a gun nuts point of view, the round sounds interesting, this is one cat that is better left in the bag, off the streets and out of the press's hands.
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Old October 19, 1998, 11:22 AM   #7
Rob Pincus
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huh? Maybe we shouldn't tell the press about those rifles we have either? Or show them what a 12 gauge will do at close range?

Tell ya what, I won't do a press release when we have come up with a catridge similar to the .224 BOZ, okay?
Whether I ever add a necked down pistol cartridge to my collection or not, I think the G&A article will pretty much give people all that they need to come up with a "new" argument. The last thing I am going to do is NOT be interested in a gun because it is not politically correct.
Don't take this personally, but letting "them" make you think like that is, in my opinion, equivalent to saying "okay, you're right, there are _some_ guns civilians shouldn't have."
So today it is high speed pistol rounds, maybe tommorow it is high powered rifles, then all hadnguns, then you 20 gauge side by side..
Not me, I'm not even taking a baby step down that road.
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Old October 20, 1998, 08:54 PM   #8
DIRK
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It's not the round. Anyone who has done some shooting and comparison of ballistics will be able to tell you, there are many rounds out there that are capable of being loaded to defeat body armor. Almost any hard ball bullet at the correct velocity will penetrate body armor.

The problem with this topic is how magazines from shooting industry wil sensationalize a topic. I'm not even talking about the main stream news media. The G&A article is a prime example. I don't think it the brightest idea to put it on the cover that way. While the average shooter has no problem with it, the anti gun person sees that and has plenty of fuel for the next round of gun control debates. That is something that we don't need.

The other point is, anyone can make a wildcat that will do the same thing. It is not rocket science.

I am all for freedom of speach, but in this anti gun environment, I think it is prudent to moderate what is said and how it is said when it comes to the gun industry. Put the information out, just don't splash the cover of magazines like it's the next supercar evryone wants.
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Old October 22, 1998, 11:56 AM   #9
Nestor Rivera
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If you want to try it with less cost you might try a CZ-52 with a Sabot to a .22 bullet, no I have not tried it but it should just wizz by being as the CZ is already in the 1550 - 1600 fps area now.
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Old October 27, 1998, 03:58 AM   #10
Matt K
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Well my earlier post about someone being able to duplicate the 224 as a wildcat type cartridge was wrong. I recently talked with Aaron Harris about the cartridge (he is the guy who built the gun for the G&A article). Apparently the British company has a patent on all forms of the 224 including all taper angles and stuff like that and they also have agreements with all the die makers so we are basically SOL. On another note the gun is virtually recoiless without a comp of any kind, and Im told it shoots super nice.

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Old October 27, 1998, 12:27 PM   #11
fal308
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Who says it has to be a 224? Why not a .25, 6mm, 6.5 etc?
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Old October 27, 1998, 02:05 PM   #12
Matt K
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The patent apparently covers cases with the same volume and all sorts of other variations for a cartridge that would be simular to the CDS round. If you think it can be done, go for it, but dont think it will be easy

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Old October 28, 1998, 12:01 PM   #13
Nestor Rivera
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The brits can patent any think they want but
assuming they patent all the diminsions of the case, so what as we all know make the bullets .001 diff or the neck .001 longer and call it improved you have a new cartridge.

as for its purpose (snicker) I really belive that the brits are just making it to make it as we all have seen there are lots of rounds allready in the market that can be pushed throung most body armor.
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Old October 29, 1998, 08:14 PM   #14
Spectre
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John Ross' character in "Unintended Consequences" used bullets milled out of nylon bar stock out of a .44 Mag. Claimed that it would defeat Kevlar at close range, but not overpenetrate. Interesting idea, huh...
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Old October 30, 1998, 02:10 AM   #15
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Just thought I would throw in the bullet that FN came up with...5.7x28. Sounds like a similar round. Low recoil, penitration of 46 layers of kevlar if I remember correctly.
Chambered for the P90. They are working on a pistol for it.
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Old November 2, 1998, 09:12 PM   #16
Spectre
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My understanding it, that the pistol has been completed for a while. (This based on the last article I read about this super-cool BP.)

What about the 5.5x19mm (is that correct)? The necked-down Soviet round the PSM fires?

[This message has been edited by Spectre (edited 11-02-98).]
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Old April 7, 2005, 04:25 PM   #17
hkgunguy
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.224 Boz

I have a complete .224 boz pistol package, with reloading dies for sale. I have pictures, and can go into more detail via email. Pistol is LNIB it is completely custom made from one of the top custom gun manufacturers in the US.

Serious Inquiries only. There are only (4) .224 boz caliber handguns in the US!!! I have the ONLY .224 reloading die set in the U.S.

If you want to have a Glock Barrel chambered in .224 boz, I have one of the only chamber finish reamers in the US. This chamber finish reamer will chamber pistol and rifle barrels, could easily have an AR15 barrel blank turned into a .224 boz, haven't had one manufactured yet due to time and money restraints, but will probally in the near future have one made. If I dont sell the package.

Here is what the package will consist of:

1 - Custom .224 Boz Pistol

1 - Complete reloading die set

1 - Chamber Finish Reamer

2 - Laminated CNC Blueprints of .224 Boz (many uses, you can determine if your loads are correct, have barrels manufactured, have other items made for the .224 Boz caliber) The blueprints are worth their weight in gold, because there is ALOT of cnc programming formulas on these. Basically you could program any cnc machine to knock out a barrel, or chamber reamer with these blueprints.

I'll throw in a few reloading loads for reference. Hint 55gr FMJ pierces soft armor, 62gr ss109 will puncture aluminum armor, titanium armor, and other plate armors. I've seen two 1/2" steel plates turned into swiss cheese.

NO I will not sell any of these seperately, its a package deal. The diagrams are literally worth just as much as the gun/reloading dies.
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Old March 11, 2007, 10:44 PM   #18
Tengri
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9mm AE

.41 AE action express necked down to 9mm. There is interest in it and it probably will take off. You could load it to higher levels than .40 S&W and .357 without primer pocket failure because its rebated and will handle higher pressures ala the .475 wildey or .357 AMP. A point some miss in poo pooing rebated rounds vs. the .40 stupid and weak or .357 sig. I'd rather have 9mm AE than .357 sig. I believe you could match 9x25 with 9mm AE.
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