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Old February 10, 2007, 10:17 PM   #76
Lurper
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Yeah, J you're right, this has come up in the past and it is a valid argument to a point. But, I have always contended that people should train much more often than they do. I also pointed out that you need to know what your skill level is and that should dictate your response. Also, I did say that if you haven't practiced the skill to at least a master class level you shouldn't try it. Isn't that fair enough?

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And even that tweaker can get into your blind spot and throw a hard punch that puts you down. If he's intent on getting your valuables, he'll hit you several more times to disorient you while grabbing for your wallet.
Absolutely right Bill and they can walk in your blind spot and cap you just as easily. I was merely countering the assumption in the post that most armed robbers are "more athletic than you . . ."
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Old February 10, 2007, 11:11 PM   #77
JohnKSa
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But, I have always contended that people should train much more often than they do.
No question about that--at least in my case, I know that I need a lot more practice and should also get some more training.
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I also pointed out that you need to know what your skill level is and that should dictate your response. Also, I did say that if you haven't practiced the skill to at least a master class level you shouldn't try it. Isn't that fair enough?
More than fair enough. A man's gotta know his limitations. --Dirty Harry
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Old February 10, 2007, 11:55 PM   #78
Powderman
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I can guarantee you that I will not. Having been a professional shooter for many years, I have fired more rounds in a year than most people will fire in two lifetimes, I've trained, shot and competed with some of the greatest shooters in the world, so it's safe to say that there aren't a lot of people out there who possess the skill at arms that I do (kind of like your shark/tuna analogy). That is why I said " If you haven't achieved a master class level of proficiency then don't even try it."
Uh huh.

Pardon the skepticism, sir....

but firing rounds on paper, steel or cardboard does not equal firing rounds at people, or having them fire at YOU.

It also sounds like you have been lucky enough to never have been the victim of violent, all-out attack.

And as far as the last post about being able to tell WHO is likely to attack you, and WHERE they will do it, I'll say this: Where I grew up, had to go to school, to the store, and live, if you could NOT spot someone who was up to no good really fast, you did not last too long.

My cousin was a Vietnam veteran; served with the 13th Special Forces Group and did three tours. He was HUGE--and also went to prison for murder. He got out, and was still someone you would NOT want to play with. I would say that he possessed master-class skills.

Unfortunately, the two 16 year olds who murdered him--by stabbing him over 90 times on a dark Chicago street--didn't think much of his training.

As far as your round count, well, you're a much more prolific shooter than I. I believe that my total rond count would probably be no more than a couple hundred thousand--and that includes 15 years active duty firing machineguns of all types and calibers.

As far as handguns, well, I've pulled a trigger a few times or so.

In closing, I will tell you this, from the point of someone who has been there, done that, and seen it from the aspects of a victim, AND as a cop...

If your attitude is anything like your post, I hope you never are the victim of a real, focused, determined attack. Because you will end up either dead or in the hospital for a long time with that mindset.
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Old February 11, 2007, 01:44 AM   #79
G-Cym
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Lurper, do you happen to have a tactical wheelbarrow?
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Old February 11, 2007, 02:10 AM   #80
Lurper
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but firing rounds on paper, steel or cardboard does not equal firing rounds at people, or having them fire at YOU.
The mechanics are the same no matter what the target. The only thing that is different is the environment. And yes, I have BTDT more than once.

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And as far as the last post about being able to tell WHO is likely to attack you, and WHERE they will do it, I'll say this: Where I grew up, had to go to school, to the store, and live, if you could NOT spot someone who was up to no good really fast, you did not last too long.
That's fine if you apply it to junkies, tweakers and gang bangers, but what about the Bundys, Gacys and Dahmers of the world. They looked no different than the average person and in Bundy's case were quite hansome and charming. Again, you can't always judge a person by how they look - nor can you assess their intent or propensity for violence.

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My cousin was a Vietnam veteran; served with the 13th Special Forces Group and did three tours. He was HUGE--and also went to prison for murder. He got out, and was still someone you would NOT want to play with. I would say that he possessed master-class skills.

Unfortunately, the two 16 year olds who murdered him--by stabbing him over 90 times on a dark Chicago street--didn't think much of his training.

As far as your round count, well, you're a much more prolific shooter than I. I believe that my total rond count would probably be no more than a couple hundred thousand--and that includes 15 years active duty firing machineguns of all types and calibers.

As far as handguns, well, I've pulled a trigger a few times or so.
I never said that my skill level made me invincible. What I did say is that it is possible to draw and hit someone who has the drop on you before they can hit you, I can and have proven it. I also acknowledge that I am a 1%er, so perhaps my solution does not work for 99% of the shooters out there. If you train and master the techniques, they will work. There is much more to than the number of rounds a person has fired.

If your active duty was with the Army, then you can tell what I did by my member name.

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In closing, I will tell you this, from the point of someone who has been there, done that, and seen it from the aspects of a victim, AND as a cop...

If your attitude is anything like your post, I hope you never are the victim of a real, focused, determined attack. Because you will end up either dead or in the hospital for a long time with that mindset.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinions, even your own opinions about me. But as I mentioned earlier, there are people who have checked me out and can tell you that I do posses the skills that I claim to. As to the rest, you should at least base your opinions about how I would handle myself on maybe a bit of research. I have BTDT on several occasions, so while my opinion is based mainly on my experience and that of several friends and not the entire world, I can say I have survived quite well with my mindset and so far thanks to my training, skill, luck, the grace of God and yes, my mindset I have prevailed in every situation.
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Old February 11, 2007, 04:58 PM   #81
odessastraight
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Well, my active duty time was with the USMC instead of the USA, but I do know about long range patrol rations; much lighter than the regular issue C-rats (MREs now). Crunchy without water, but still good chow. I know, somewhat, of your background and have no doubt that you are better trained for an armed confrontation than the average bloke. I mean, probably not quite as well trained as USMC Force Recon, but yeaaaaah, fairly well trained.

OK, to your quandry stated in your initial post. I think it's mostly a question of comfort. To some folks the odds seem so slim of having to use a ccw that they are willing to sacrifice effectiveness for comfort. You'll hear this concept expressed in many of the ways you've mentioned (any gun better than no gun... they're all about the same... & etc), but it really boils down to them being more comfortable. That's OK, by me and some of them will even admit it.
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Old February 14, 2007, 05:07 PM   #82
Daniel BOON
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heres what my wife does

"GET THE **** AWAY FROM ME" as loud as she can; it seems to break their concentration, and they go away. we live in a large city that caters to vagrants and illegals, so we get lots of practise;
for some reason though, they don't bother us when we have our Rottweiler with us. go figure.
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