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Old December 16, 2006, 09:52 AM   #1
viper1216
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5.56 vs .223

I know that the 5.56 has higher pressures and all, but is it the same case? I had bought a bunch of Wolf performance ammo and it fired realy nice, but when I was trying to deprime the shells last night I noticed that they fit kinda snug in my .223 shell holder. Do I need a special die set for this type of shell?
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Old December 16, 2006, 10:34 AM   #2
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Unless you mean wolf gold, it cant be reloaded. Normal wolf ammo is steel cased and berdan not boxer primed. If your frige magnet sticks to it, its steel and should be trashed. .223 and 556 cases are the same dementions, but a load worked up in one type / brand may not be safe in a heavier / thicker case and you should drop your chare a gr or two and work back up to velocity watching for pressuar sings along the way. If you are trying to save $$ on brass, buy some x1fired brass from top brass or brassman.com. Leave the steel cases in the trash and your eyes in you head.
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Old December 16, 2006, 11:00 AM   #3
Buckythebrewer
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+1 to Ammojunky,I have fired 5.56 in a 223 rem chamber and have seen excessive pressure signs including almost head case seperation and Loose primers that would not even stay in and just rattle around.(NOt smart to shoot 5.56 in rem chamber).I don't believe wolf is 5.56 specs(not sure on that).You say the cases wont fit in the shellholder well??I would be conserned that the heads are expanding to much(if this is brass your talking about) from excessive pressure.If you are trying to resize steel cases I would just forget that for the reasons Ammojunky mentioned,JMO..
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Old December 16, 2006, 12:17 PM   #4
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If one does a little research and finds schematics of both 5.56 and .223, you'll find that they're not the same. There are minor differences. However, I don't differentiate between the two with my reloading, as I have yet to find anything but .223 dies.

Also, the "theory" that military 5.56 brass is thicker, with a smaller internal capacity, than is commercial .223 is fallacious. They're the same.
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Old December 16, 2006, 12:29 PM   #5
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I've never seen 223/556 schematics and doubt they're different. (Could be wrong I suppose) but other than that, I haven't found any weight or capacity differences so load with no differentiation. I don't load max or have any commercial 223 chambers in the house though.

Aussie, you got a link to those schematics?
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Old December 16, 2006, 12:46 PM   #6
Ausserordeutlich
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I've seen the schematics on other gun boards. I suppose a Google might reveal something. I believe the differenc is in the shoulder/neck, but I'm recalling from memory.

Like you, I don't differentiate, and my only reason for filing away that information in memory was just, I suppose, to accumulate more usless trivia in my already-crowded cranium.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223vs556.pdf
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Old December 16, 2006, 02:13 PM   #7
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Ive seen the schematics and Yes its in the shoulder and neck area of the chamber thats different(just read your link and didn't realize there was a headspace difference between the 2)..In my rifle I have seen a dramatic difference between 5.56 and non-nato spec ammo(scary).I think it depends on your chamber.My chamber happens to be a little on the tighter side and that makes things a little unsafe like I previously mentioned.There is a difference,and it can be unsafe if you don't pay attention to the warnings.Its fine if you have a nato chamber,but I don't.In my 223 rem chamber Ive seen what happens when you ignore the warnings.
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Old December 16, 2006, 04:28 PM   #8
viper1216
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The ammo is brass cased wolf. I have a Bushmaster AR-15 which is chambered for both the .223 and 5.56 round. I'm actually wondering if maybe the case is swelling a little due to more pressure. Some of them fit in the shell holder ok, others do not. Hmmm...think I'll just toss them...better to be on the safe side than the missing limb side.

Thanks
Viper
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Old December 16, 2006, 05:01 PM   #9
rangermonroe
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Measure the rim thickness with your calipers.

You do have calipers, don't you?

If not, Harbor freight tools sells digital ones for about $20. Buy $30 more of chinese crap and get free shipping.
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Old December 16, 2006, 08:40 PM   #10
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And that, dear friends, is why ALL of my rifles in that caliber have 5.56X45 NATO chambers. I'm not generally a picky person, but in regards to 5.56X45 chambers, and chrome lining in bores and chambers of that calibre, I am EXTREMELY picky!
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Old December 17, 2006, 12:06 AM   #11
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Here's another 5.56mm vs .223 page that's worth reading.
http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html
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Old December 17, 2006, 12:14 AM   #12
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You usually always have a trade-off one way or the other.One will give you better accuracy potential ,the other will give you better flexibility.
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Old December 17, 2006, 01:22 PM   #13
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Another link - Click on Reloading Stuph


http://www.njhighpower.com/
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Old December 23, 2006, 12:17 PM   #14
Dave R
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FWIW, Speer No. 13 reloading manual basically treats 5.56X45 and .223 as interchangeable, with a note to watch for crimped primer pockets and download slightly for thicker milsurp brass.

I have found Lake City brass to be quite accurate with reloads in it.
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Old December 24, 2006, 12:14 PM   #15
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The difference by the numbers

This is the differences in Chamber dimensions. This is the actual reamer specs. Hope this helps.

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Old December 24, 2006, 01:16 PM   #16
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Lazy D,
Thanks for posting that diagram.
Did you make it with the Clymer data?

I have a Bushmaster V-match that has a 5.56 chamber.
I cannot get a 1" group with that rifle.
The best I have ever done is 1.05" 5 shots at 100 meters.

My Ruger #1 .223 shot a .5" 5 shot at 100 yards in it's last group. It has a .223 SAAMI chamber.

I have a custom .223 with shorter throat and .250" neck. With it my brother made a 1903 Turk sporter with 1 in 16" barrel. It shoots sub moa with 33 gr bullets.
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Old December 24, 2006, 05:04 PM   #17
Lazy D
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I did get it from clymer's web page. I find it is a great source of information.
Here is a link to their page.


http://www.clymertool.com/design/index.html
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Old December 24, 2006, 05:08 PM   #18
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My rossi single shot 223 outshoots my ruger mini-14. one inch @ 100yds for the singl shot
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Old December 25, 2006, 12:58 AM   #19
Abstract
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Clark: Are you using an o.a.l. of around 2.260"? Have you replaced that lousy factory Bushy trigger with something better? Are you using match bullets? That V-Match should do better than 1".
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Old January 4, 2007, 12:53 AM   #20
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I put a $100 JP trigger in my Bushmaster 8 years ago, and it was a pain to put in.

I have bought rifles for $100 with better triggers than that, but the were not semi autos with disconnectors.

I usually load .223 at 2.170"

I have better dies now, and better technique. Maybe I can do better if there is a windless day.
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Old January 4, 2007, 09:53 AM   #21
Ausserordeutlich
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If you're loading at 2.170", you're loading up some pretty short .223's there. Might account for some of the accuracy problems.
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Old January 14, 2007, 03:47 PM   #22
wallie5.56
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Trouble with Steel case ammo

Just wanted to know if anyone had any "educated" info on the steel case vs. brass case ammo question. I recently purchased a Bushmaster and was wondering if the steel case Russian could cause dammage.. Thanks
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Old January 14, 2007, 06:44 PM   #23
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The idea that steel cased ammo can cause damage to your gun is an old urban myth that has been debunked hundreds of time, but seems to keep coming back. It is absolute B.S.
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