The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 30, 2006, 08:48 PM   #1
kgpcr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2005
Posts: 944
Winchester primers

I have been loading for 25yrs and always used CCI primer but they seem to be gettnig harder all the time so i am going to switch for a while for my handguns. How are Winchester primers? What do you use and why?
__________________
Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag
Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded
XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag
Smith M&P 40
kgpcr is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 08:59 PM   #2
swmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2005
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 658
IMHO you will like your CCI's better. As to the CCI's being Harder, lots of writing that contradicts that feeling.
__________________
My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target.


"In God we trust, all others are suspects."

"If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help".

____________________________________________
swmike is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 09:01 PM   #3
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,206
I usually run Federal primers because they are reputed to be the most sensitive, and therefore least likely to fail to go off. However, I knew a number of people who used the WLP primers in .45 ACP loads in local competition, and they claimed to be satisfied with them. I have used factory primed Winchester .223 brass in match loads, and they've never caused me a problem. I am the source of most of my problems in that arena.

Nick
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 09:08 PM   #4
armedandsafe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2005
Location: Moses Lake WA
Posts: 1,001
Since 1948, I have used about 1000 CCI primers and about 2000 Remingtons. All the others were Winchesters. I cannot remember a failure to fire I could blame on anyone but myself (IOW: sloppy reloading practice.)

Pops
__________________
Armed and Safe: Not just a theory

If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up.
Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."
armedandsafe is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 11:23 PM   #5
Thesenator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Posts: 120
I have used Winchester for the past nine years in rifle and pistol loads. I've tried CCI, Federal and Remington and had problems with all three of them, during loading. Had a couple of boxes(2000) CCIs that were out of round and useless. They were purchased at a gun show out of state so there was no returning them and I didn't want to go through a big song and dance with CCI
over two boxes so I dumped them out and buried them.

Winchesters are the only ones I've found that load consistantly on my Dillon press, so I've continued to use them above all others. In well over 100,000 that I've reloaded, I've never had one fail to fire in any of my guns, never a slam fire and never had one pierce or fall out of a reload either. Unless there was an outstanding deal on another brand like half price(and even then I'd think about it), I wouldn't consider changing.
Thesenator is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 11:11 AM   #6
Ammo Junky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 537
I use win primers exclusevly. In part because being brand loyal to win brass, win primers, sierra bullets and hodgdon powders helps simplify choices when working up a new load. Win primers are harder than fed. I have only found that to make a difference with guns that had problems to begin with. An old 66-1 that needed a main spring and a G20 than needed new guts period. The fed would be my second choice. They could have been a close second, but their sensitivity nessitates very bulky packing and I dont like it. Win primers are said to be hotter than fed, but I have not seen that over the chrono for LP and LPM primers. I have never used any rifle primer except win. A cooler rifle primer may give better sd in some small cases, but I have had great consistancy in large rifle cases with win. CCI are the only primers that I ever heard really bad things about. Size out of spec higher sd etc. Its a shame, I would love to but the primers already in the aps strips, but Ill take the win quality over the convenience. If they would sell fed primers in the aps strips like rcbs promised coustomers who bought the aps systems they would. I would happily go with fed primers at least for handgun loading. For handgun loading I doubt any change in velocity or sd would be seen on target unless you have your target a looong way off. Anyone shooting handguns that far (100yd+) will likely already have an opinion on their perferd primer and wont be swayed by a thread. If you rifle shoting extends much beyond 300yd or for competion where an 1/8 min or 50 fps means someting, experimentation may pay some dividiens. I would love to hear from any loaders out there that saw an accuracy change with a primer change? That would be interesting indeed.
__________________
Will work for brass.

I apologise in advance for spelling errors.
Ammo Junky is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 11:16 AM   #7
VaFisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2006
Posts: 596
I have been reloading for just about 30 years now and I use the Winchester 99% of the time without having any issues.
VaFisher is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 11:32 AM   #8
PoiDog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 1999
Location: IL
Posts: 219
I've used thousands of Winchesters, in all sizes, with no problems.

The only other primer I use is Federal large rifle match since they're required for a specific load that one of my rifles loves.
PoiDog is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 12:14 PM   #9
pumpkinheaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 294
I use winchester primers for everything except magnum handgun loads, I use federal for those. CCI primers are the only primers I've had problems with, albeit only once.
__________________
Just because your paranoid don't mean they aint out to get ya.
pumpkinheaver is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 01:17 PM   #10
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,494
Sounds like there's an echo in here ... lessee ...

Winchester! ....... Winchester ....... winchester .......

Yep. I've pretty much settled on Winchester primers for all my reloading; never had a problem that could be related to the primer. However, to be honest, I haven't found the other manufacturer's primers to be bad in any significant way. CCI's are a little harder and Federals are a little more sensitive (softer), but they each have their place in some specific reloading tasks. It's silly I know, but the only reason I don't like Federals is because of the big honkin' box they come in - takes up too much room when you have several thousand on the shelf.
Mal H is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 10:20 AM   #11
CHAINSAW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 1999
Posts: 201
Am I the only one using Remington? I actually use all of the brands. I keep CCI 250's, CCI 450's, Rem.9 1/2M, Rem7 1/2, WSP, and also have some Fed 210m's and some Federal 215 that I use occaisionally. I've had good luck with all of them.
CHAINSAW is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 12:26 PM   #12
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,232
I've used nothing but Remington primers for over 30 years now. Never had a problem. Never. I've used over 200,000 for my own reloading, and when I was a partner in a small commercial reloading business, we used over 2.5 million without a single misfire or other problem.

In addititon, Remington 7 1/2 Small rifle, and 9 1/2 Large rifle primers meet MilSpec, and are suitable for loading for military weapons.

BTW, this post is not intended to "bad mouth" Winchester, Federal, CCI, RWS etc. It is just to share my experiences with Remigton primers.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 12:34 PM   #13
Jammer Six
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 827
I've had nothing but trouble with Winchester primers. I've used a few thousand of them, because I bought them, but they fail to fire, then fire on the second shot.

I've been told it's because they're harder to seat and harder than Federal primers.

I don't understand why someone would use a primer that is harder to make work, but okay...

I now use Federal primers and only Federal primers, because I want primers that are easy to seat and go bang every time.

I have never had a Federal primer fail to fire.
__________________
"Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998
Jammer Six is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 01:41 PM   #14
Buckythebrewer
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2006
Location: Jefferson, ME
Posts: 700
Usually the problems are never from primers,but they sure are easy to point at +blame for problems.I love winchester primers for my ar15,and we also used them(pistol primers)in a 44 desert eagle and they worked great..Lee recommends not using federal primers in there tray fed priming tools and to only feed them single feed(ive broken that rule )..the federals seat harder than winchesters(more seating pressure to seat them properly).This is my experience anyways.Ive had great results from all the primers ive used.the only exception is 5-6 federal primers I did not seat hard enough(I was use to winchester primers that dont hardly take any pressure to seat)..Jammer six,,Were you seating the winchesters to HARD??I have never had a failure to fire in all the 1000's of winchester primers Ive used.Maybe your hammer spring was a little light??Just some thoughts because Ive never had a problem,and thats from many different lots of primers
Buckythebrewer is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 01:41 PM   #15
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,494
Jammer Six - it's impossible to say for sure from this side of the screen, but your experience with Winchester primers (or any harder-than-Federal primer) is the classic symptom of not seating primers deep enough. The firearm's firing pin finishes the primer seating process and then fires it on the second go-round. Could that be the problem and not a problem with the primers themselves?

Which firearms are failing to ignite the primers?
Mal H is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 02:44 PM   #16
pumpkinheaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 294
I have never seen Remington primers for sale in my area and thus never tried them.
__________________
Just because your paranoid don't mean they aint out to get ya.
pumpkinheaver is offline  
Old January 2, 2007, 08:41 AM   #17
Jammer Six
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 827
Mal, I believe that is exactly the problem- it fits precisely the symptoms I've had.

The problem occurs in two 1911s.

It never occurs with Federal primers.

Either Winchester are harder to seat or harder to fire, or Federals are easier to seat, and softer.

I use a Dillon press, not a Lee.

The solution is simple, and has worked completely for me.

No more Winchester primers for me, Federals only.

Why would I choose a primer that is harder to seat, when Federals are easy to seat?

Happy New Year, everyone!
__________________
"Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998
Jammer Six is offline  
Old January 2, 2007, 12:28 PM   #18
Buckythebrewer
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2006
Location: Jefferson, ME
Posts: 700
Jammer six,For me and my Lee handheld primer seater, The winchester primers are BY far easier to seat with 1/2 the pressure needed than federal so im guessing its the hardness thats a factor,or either that your crushing the winchesters to much(just a maybe)..I agree ,stick with what works best for you(federals worked great for me as well),but I dont think its the primers themselves.It could be the brass im using is just slightly larger in the primer area as well so I have to admit that could be a factor with my experience.It always takes more force for me to seat federals, so that is why I had my 5-6 missfires(I didnt seat with enough pressure) IMO.After I seated with more force I did not have one missfire with the 500 or so federal primers I had left.
Buckythebrewer is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 10:04 AM   #19
tlm225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 661
I have used Remington, CCI and Winchester but of the three I use Winchester the most by far. The only primer related problem with them in the last 25+ years of loading was caused by me (light springs or not seating deeply enough).
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
tlm225 is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 10:20 AM   #20
Ausserordeutlich
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 996
I've had many misfires with Winchester gold-colored large pistol primers.
Ausserordeutlich is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 12:26 PM   #21
Poodleshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 7, 2000
Location: Floating down the James River in VA
Posts: 2,537
I've also had high failure rates with Winchester LP/LPMs,but only with my Glock. The Glock shoots just fine with Federal and Remington primed reloads using identical processes,equipment and loads. My 1911 shoots the same Winchester reloads perfectly,so it's definitely a gun/primer compatibility issue,rather than a problem with the primers per say. My primers are always fully seated to flush or just below. Other winchester primers have not been a problem,unless I didn't seat deeply enough (happened once with a batch of 30/30 due to a problem with my seating tool getting worn).
Poodleshooter is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 07:06 PM   #22
6.5x.284tony
Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2006
Location: N.E. Colorado
Posts: 15
I don't claim to be an expert of any kind. I have primers of allmost every company on my shelf. I reload for mostly target and varmint, and have consistantly had the best luck with cci br2 and br4.- shooting mostly ppc and br based cartridges along with the occasional .22-.250, .222, .243 etc.

Tony
6.5x.284tony is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 07:26 PM   #23
Ammo Junky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 537
G20 and G21 are notorious for missfires. Fed primers help significantly, but doesnt fix the real problem. A wolf ep striker spring fixed by g20. It was missfiering every mag with win primers, less with federal. The ep spring made it 100% with all primers. If your primer strike is so marginal that it wont lite win primers every time, you have a gun problem. I would not use a gun like that for anything "important". The G20 is one of my all time faviorites, but it does need the ep striker spring before I would trust it, period.
__________________
Will work for brass.

I apologise in advance for spelling errors.
Ammo Junky is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12246 seconds with 9 queries