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Old July 31, 2006, 10:49 PM   #26
Art Eatman
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Brian, the accuracy issue gets into the "free floated barrel" deal that's talked about so much for bolt actions.

With a tube magazine, the barrel bands create stress on the barrel as it heats up at a different rate than the magazine tube. Same thing for the barrel bands and the wood of the forearm. The barrel heats up both more and more rapidly than either the tube or the wood. It "grows" in both length and diameter. The amount of stress changes as the barrel gets hotter from firing a group. The change in stress is what messes up the deal for tight groups.

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Old August 1, 2006, 06:45 PM   #27
BrianBM
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I take it, then, that the first shot out of a given lever ought be more or less the same as that out of a bolt made to the same tolerances, of the same length, and with the same cartridge?

Thinking about it calls to mind a photo, or an illustration, of some exotic rifle that was made for some ultrademanding shooting event. Might've been winter biathlon, but I don't remember. Anyway, the rifle LOOKED to have a tubular magazine, but the barrel and mag had NO physical connection whatever. They both grew out of the action like parallel cornstalks. What am I talking about?
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Old August 1, 2006, 10:22 PM   #28
JohnKSa
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Not necessarily, the more stuff that's in contact with the barrel, the more likely it is that something will rattle, vibrate, unevenly bear against, or otherwise interfere with the barrel and thus alter the point of impact unpredictably.

What you're describing sounds like a stabilizer of some sort. Having some weight out front on a rifle tends to stabilize a shooting position during offhand (rifle is not rested) shooting.
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Old August 4, 2006, 09:59 PM   #29
The Texican.
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it isn't how many shoots you can put in a quarter, but if you can drop the prey or not................... it dosn't matter to that deer, turkey, coyote how close your pattern is when you hit it in the kill zone which is larger than a quarter.

My left handed wife uses my old 30-30 with sabot bullets and has consitently dropped deer and turkey at 100 to 160 plus yards.

Will have to buy her some of these new bullets to see if they work.
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Old August 17, 2006, 01:55 PM   #30
guntotin_fool
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I have a 30 30 in a model 99 savage that will push the one inch barrier, maybe one in ten groups will get under an inch at one hundred yards.

I had a 788 that I was forced to sell many years ago that would shoot under 1" with scary regularity. IF and ONLY IF that guy has one of those, would I believe that he had a 1/2 moa 30-30. I still have a 6mm and a 22-250 788 that will not shoot over an inch.
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Old August 17, 2006, 02:36 PM   #31
Art Eatman
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For a hunting rifle, the Real Deal is whether the first shot from a cold barrel on opening day goes to the same spot as it did when you sighted in, and does it again later on. Group size is pretty much unimportant, other than an overall quality check.

I dunno. I haven't needed over two shots on Bambi but once in my whole life. Darned few even needed the second, except as a coup de grace.

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Old August 17, 2006, 07:10 PM   #32
MeekAndMild
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But its still hard to believe that a lever action rifle with a barrel band will shoot warm where it shoots cold.
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Old August 17, 2006, 07:54 PM   #33
FirstFreedom
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Lately it's been good fantastical reading on TFL - 1/2 moa .30-30s @ 200 regularly, hits with M4 @ 900. We should be notifying these guys to update their website:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~spok/grimmtmp/
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Old August 17, 2006, 09:39 PM   #34
jroth
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My 336...

will hold the SR-2 X-ring with my handloads, from sitting position.
I'm interseted in this new ammo due to the heavier bullet and a shorter OAL compared to a Win150gr factory round.
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