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Old August 13, 2006, 07:06 PM   #1
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PA "no duty to retreat" law.

Currently, in PA, you have a duty to retreat.

I just heard on my evening news that the PA legislature is debating a “no duty to retreat” law.

The counter argument is that murderers will now be able to argue self defense.

I am hoping it passes.

Anyone else heard about this?
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Old August 13, 2006, 07:16 PM   #2
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Tokamak Currently, in PA, you have a duty to retreat.


not in the law as far as i know. some DA's have argued that, but have been shot down several times.

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Old August 14, 2006, 07:35 AM   #3
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I heard it. Rep Stephen Capelli (R Lycoming) is the rep who is sponsoring the Bill. No number yet.

In PA you do not have to retreat in your home, this will do away with the "Duty to Retreat" elsewhere.

PA folks start hounding your Reps.
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Old August 14, 2006, 09:31 AM   #4
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These laws generally create a rebuttable presumption of self-defense under certain circumstances. This means that it's not an automatic out for the shooter - if the prosecution can prove that it was a bad shoot in one of the presumption-applicable situations, there can still be a conviction.
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Old August 14, 2006, 09:43 AM   #5
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mvpel got it exactly right.

The law may not require you to retreat, but that does not give a person a license to kill.

There is no such thing as a cookie cutter defense for a self-defense shooting. Each case is taken for it's specifics, and all the law does is lower the cost of the first bullet you fire in defense to about $50,000 down from $100,000.

If anything, it makes people who are thinking of victimizing someone else realize that today really might be the last day of their life.

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Old August 14, 2006, 09:45 AM   #6
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Get some petitions going and get them to pass it, VA state senate just shot down the "stand your ground" law after it passed state house. 15 other states are already on the bandwagon.
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Old August 14, 2006, 01:05 PM   #7
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If PA were to follow the guidelines of the Florida Castle Doctrine I think they would have no problems, this doctrine also precludes the Criminal, or his Family members from taking the defender to court for monitary damages and the like, which I personally always thought was totally wrong.
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Old August 14, 2006, 01:12 PM   #8
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I hope it goes the way of Florida...

We have the "right to shoot law" we can stand our ground, and have no need to retreat. If a person feels threatened of bodily harm or death, they have the right to fight back without retreating. From a personal standpoint I agree with this law, we can't always expect the cops to come to our rescue immediately, only we are responsible for our own defense unti law enforcement can arrive to arrest the criminal/cart him off to the morgue should it come to that extreme. Reminds me of a story of how my uncle was almost mugged back in the 80s in the Bronx, New York. Two punks tried to take his wallet at knife point while trying to shove him against a wall he had no avenue of escape since he had to walk through a small walkway tunnel to his apartment, well because NY is anti-gun he only had a knife on him as well, he sliced one of the punk's ear and the other just tucked tail and ran. Don't know if NY has a requirement to retreat, but I'm glad my uncle stood his ground successfully. Now just curious, is it just me or are gun laws getting better and better in our country?

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Old August 14, 2006, 07:44 PM   #9
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Here in New Hampshire, we tried to get it passed but the opposition (the AG and the police chiefs) flat out lied about it - they said that nobody has been prosecuted for a righteous shoot, when that was patently false. There's been maybe half a dozen straight-up acquittals of accused self-defenders in recent years.

They have an advantage of language in opposing this, unfortunately, through Ian Fleming's enduring popularity.
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
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Old August 17, 2006, 03:42 PM   #10
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I don't know guys, ever since Bernie Getz turned himself in for a self defense shooting in NYC, I have no faith in that defense. I think the first mistake would be to call the police and report it. If my compost pile grew a few inches over night, who would be the wiser?
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