The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools
Old August 13, 2006, 07:06 PM   #1
Tokamak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Posts: 265
PA "no duty to retreat" law.

Currently, in PA, you have a duty to retreat.

I just heard on my evening news that the PA legislature is debating a “no duty to retreat” law.

The counter argument is that murderers will now be able to argue self defense.

I am hoping it passes.

Anyone else heard about this?
Tokamak is offline  
Old August 13, 2006, 07:16 PM   #2
rms/pa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2000
Location: penn's woods / USA
Posts: 105
Tokamak Currently, in PA, you have a duty to retreat.

What??

not in the law as far as i know. some DA's have argued that, but have been shot down several times.

rms/pa
rms/pa is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 07:35 AM   #3
K80Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 1998
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,640
I heard it. Rep Stephen Capelli (R Lycoming) is the rep who is sponsoring the Bill. No number yet.

In PA you do not have to retreat in your home, this will do away with the "Duty to Retreat" elsewhere.

PA folks start hounding your Reps.
__________________
I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!
K80Geoff is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 09:31 AM   #4
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 1,847
These laws generally create a rebuttable presumption of self-defense under certain circumstances. This means that it's not an automatic out for the shooter - if the prosecution can prove that it was a bad shoot in one of the presumption-applicable situations, there can still be a conviction.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 09:43 AM   #5
CDH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 939
mvpel got it exactly right.

The law may not require you to retreat, but that does not give a person a license to kill.

There is no such thing as a cookie cutter defense for a self-defense shooting. Each case is taken for it's specifics, and all the law does is lower the cost of the first bullet you fire in defense to about $50,000 down from $100,000.

If anything, it makes people who are thinking of victimizing someone else realize that today really might be the last day of their life.

Carter
CDH is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 09:45 AM   #6
Dreadnought
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2006
Location: Willy
Posts: 318
Get some petitions going and get them to pass it, VA state senate just shot down the "stand your ground" law after it passed state house. 15 other states are already on the bandwagon.
__________________
"NO YELLING ON THE BUS!"
Dreadnought is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 01:05 PM   #7
Kelly J
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 29, 2006
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 383
If PA were to follow the guidelines of the Florida Castle Doctrine I think they would have no problems, this doctrine also precludes the Criminal, or his Family members from taking the defender to court for monitary damages and the like, which I personally always thought was totally wrong.
__________________
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"
--Samuel Adams
Kelly J is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 01:12 PM   #8
Epyon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2006
Location: Awesome, Colorado
Posts: 700
I hope it goes the way of Florida...

We have the "right to shoot law" we can stand our ground, and have no need to retreat. If a person feels threatened of bodily harm or death, they have the right to fight back without retreating. From a personal standpoint I agree with this law, we can't always expect the cops to come to our rescue immediately, only we are responsible for our own defense unti law enforcement can arrive to arrest the criminal/cart him off to the morgue should it come to that extreme. Reminds me of a story of how my uncle was almost mugged back in the 80s in the Bronx, New York. Two punks tried to take his wallet at knife point while trying to shove him against a wall he had no avenue of escape since he had to walk through a small walkway tunnel to his apartment, well because NY is anti-gun he only had a knife on him as well, he sliced one of the punk's ear and the other just tucked tail and ran. Don't know if NY has a requirement to retreat, but I'm glad my uncle stood his ground successfully. Now just curious, is it just me or are gun laws getting better and better in our country?


Epyon
__________________
Vote Epyon for president in 2008, if you vote for Epyon all of your wildest dreams will come true: This campaign was brought to you by Epyon; funded in part by the Pizza Party, Surprise Party, Birthday Party, and Slumber Party.
Epyon is offline  
Old August 14, 2006, 07:44 PM   #9
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 1,847
Here in New Hampshire, we tried to get it passed but the opposition (the AG and the police chiefs) flat out lied about it - they said that nobody has been prosecuted for a righteous shoot, when that was patently false. There's been maybe half a dozen straight-up acquittals of accused self-defenders in recent years.

They have an advantage of language in opposing this, unfortunately, through Ian Fleming's enduring popularity.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old August 17, 2006, 03:42 PM   #10
BigBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Lehigh Twp., PA.
Posts: 24
I don't know guys, ever since Bernie Getz turned himself in for a self defense shooting in NYC, I have no faith in that defense. I think the first mistake would be to call the police and report it. If my compost pile grew a few inches over night, who would be the wiser?
Don
BigBlue is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08354 seconds with 9 queries