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Old August 2, 2006, 01:18 AM   #26
Doubletaptap
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Yes here in Texas we have a 8 hour class on laws and what to do and not to do.
And what happens in the courts if you shoot.
Then we have to pass a written test.
Then we have to "qualify" with the gun of our choice.
If you shoot a semi-auto you qualify for SA or revolver carry. If you shoot a revolver,it's for revolver only.
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Old August 2, 2006, 01:47 AM   #27
Revolver Gustav
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"Do you have a CCW license in your state? Did you have to take a class regarding the legal issues surrounding use of deadly force? If not, you ought to."

I'm not old enough to even legally own a gun now... or at least purchase one. I just want to know before I am. Doesn't hurt to get knowledge early.
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Old August 2, 2006, 05:50 AM   #28
CDH
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If I've made it look like I want to go out as some gun-toting vigilante out for justice... that's not what I'm getting at. I realize that there are serious consequences just for drawing your weapon as well. I guess I'm just too mad at how the world is working to let it settle that a person could stop a crime from happening or stop a person from being hurt and not. I know that's the wrong way to think and that the laws and morality run deeper than that... well thanks for your replies and for opening things up.

I understand the sentiment and I'm sure we all feel it in one way or another, but being given the legal right to be armed gives you no additional authority more than you already have now to act out those feelings. In fact, in some ways, you have to more conservative.
With additional ability (not authority) to easily do lethal harm, your judgement has to be that much more conservative in order to avoid doing unnecessary harm.

Perhaps if you feel that strongly about it, you might think about a career in law enforcement? Seriously.

By the way, no one's beating up on you here, you're just young and need some experienced advice to keep you out of trouble. Years from now, you'll be offering the same advice to others as young as you are now.
God, I wish I was young...

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Old August 2, 2006, 06:09 AM   #29
CDH
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Quote:
Boondoggie said:
Your propriety doesn't enter into this equation, unless someone is threatening your life or the life of another (usually another family member), say whilst in your property, you technically have no recourse. example, if you run out to find someone in you car about to drive off and you 'draw down on them' technically you are in the wrong, now if you shot, I think you would have a hard time explaining why, unless of course he was about to use your vehicle as a weapon that is..
Actually, in Texas, it is perfectly legal to kill someone (even if they are unarmed) in the process of stealing your car from in front of your house if it's after dark. If the same situation happens in daylight, you'll be charged.
Some interesting points I'd like to throw in about that are:
1. I like it. While I would personally NOT kill someone to save my car, I am glad that in Texas, it is recognized to a certain extent that a citizen has the right to protect their property. In the UK, there are people in jail who were VICTIMS of home invasions and who defended themselves with deadly force to protect themselves and their family, and THEY were sent to jail.
For the moment, anyway, I live in a still free Texas.
2. Note that the law is literally a "night and day" difference. If you think about it, what's the difference between stopping the theft of your car with deadly force whether it happens at night or in daylight?
I think it comes back to the issue of legitimate self defense. At night and even if the thief is unarmed, it's dark so you can't know that he's unarmed. The law gives the homeowner the benefit of the doubt because you have to assume the threat is there.
In daylight, you could see that the thief was unarmed therefore you are not legally allowed to use deadly force to just protect your car. Of course if it's daylight and you can see that the thief IS armed, you're back to the legality of using deadly force to counter a direct threat to your life (not to your car).

This is all fun to talk about, but I'd like to think that most people, like myself, would first immediately call 911, and then just stand in hiding with gun in hand (in case the thief decided to enter my house) watching my car drive off.
If my home is entered at night, all bets are off.

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Old August 2, 2006, 08:24 AM   #30
tegemu
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There have been a couple of replies that mention defending property with your CCW. As I see it that will get you in deep trouble. If your property is being damaged or stolen, that is NOT a life threatening occasion and drawing a pistol or God forbid, shooting it in defense of your property makes you a criminal too.
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Old August 2, 2006, 08:26 AM   #31
VirgilCaine
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Here in the Big Mitt that is Michigan, we no longer have a "duty to retreat".

I mind my own business, but i'm the type of person that if I hear a yell or call for help, or if something comes across my scanner or sideband radio, I will help. That doesn't mean I'm going to run into a situation spending a fortune in Hydro-shoks, but there is a very good chance I'll personally know the folks involved.

We tend to call our neighbors before LEO's up here. State Police are 22 miles away, and our lone county Sheriff is 26 miles away. My wife knows to use the sideband before 911 if she's in trouble at home.

I guess there is a distinction between rual CCW and city CCW and whatever percieved obligations therein.

When i'm in the city, I'm in self/ wife preservation mode.

Quick story:

I was leaving a Bistro in downtown Pontiac a while back and walking to my Jeep when a young woman jumps out of a car and begins screaming about 30yds in front of me. A man in the car is yelling, "get the &%$! back in here".

I asked the young lady if she was alright and she said, "NO! he just farted and it stinks!!"

Things may not be what they appear, and if you run in singing, " here I come to save the daaaay!"....

The TinStars might already be on the way, and you could really gum up the works.
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Old August 2, 2006, 09:33 AM   #32
M1911
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Quote:
I guess I'm just too mad at how the world is working to let it settle that a person could stop a crime from happening or stop a person from being hurt and not.
First, the situation may not be what it first appears. Cops are trained and experienced in quickly determining what is going on, but even they get it wrong.

Second, when the police do arrive, they'll see you with a gun. This is a very, very, very dangerous situation. Police officers end up mistakenly shooting undercover and off-duty officers on a fairly regular basis -- for example, Officer Cornel Young, Jr in Providence. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10228242/

Third, if you get killed in the incident, the victim that you saved is not going to take care of your wife or put your kids through college.

Fourth, you most likely are not adequately trained to intervene, even if you have taken your state's CCW course.

Fifth, if you do use deadly force, even if it is justified, you may be arrested and quite possibly face criminal and civil trials that will use up your entire life savings and leave you in debt for many years even if you prevail. If you don't prevail, you could spend the rest of your life in prison.

While many of people have Walter Mitty dreams and would love to be the hero, actually acting on those dreams is fraught with danger. If you want to be a cop, go to the academy and join the force.
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