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Old April 27, 2006, 01:37 PM   #1
Superhornet
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Random thoughts--Hard Primers ??

Is there such a thing, or are we talking about sensitivity of the priming compound...CCI has a reputation (according to some) of Hard primers..I wrote their engineering department and had a long discussion with them..Was told that many years ago such was the case, but twenty years ago they changed the cup material and now not considered to be hard.....any thoughts ?????
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Old April 27, 2006, 02:19 PM   #2
Smokey Joe
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Hard CCI's

Superhornet--CCI does make one primer that is deliberately hard, their #34. It is intended for "7.62 mm NATO, 30-06, and 7.62x39 Ammunition." (Quote from my box of #34's.) Standard Large Rifle in size.

The idea is that some military autoloading firearms, notoriously the SKS, do not have a firing pin return spring, and with just a little gunk in the channel with the firing pin, can be prone to slam-fires.

(I understand the same is true of the Garand, but no experience there.)

With a harder primer, the chance of a slam-fire due to gunked-up firing pin is much less.

The #34 primer still functions perfectly well as a primer when hit enthusiastically by a firing pin propelled by the gun's hammer, just as it should.
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Old April 27, 2006, 02:31 PM   #3
Leftoverdj
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Superhornet, I neither know nor care whether regular CCI primers are harder or less sensitive. All I need to know is that that a match tuned PPC revolver that functions perfectly with Federal small pistol primers gives misfires with CCI.
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Old April 27, 2006, 08:18 PM   #4
sindiesel666
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I can tell the difference in primers when loading. It takes more ooomph to seat CCIs than either Winchesters or especially Federals on my Dillon 650.
Most of folks who reload and shoot IDPA/IPSC use Federals, since most have lighter triggers and tuned guns.
CCIs have worked good for me, no misfires or light primer strikes, but the metal used is harder than Federals for sure.
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Old April 27, 2006, 08:50 PM   #5
Colduglandon
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I reloades for an SKS once. I had slam fires, and the first time it scared the heck out of me.

I still have bullets and brass I did not use. Glad I check this posting out. Got to get some hard primers.
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Old April 28, 2006, 12:01 AM   #6
Smokey Joe
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Avoiding SKS slam-fires

Paul Morceau--Avoiding SKS slam-fires is pretty easy...usually.

What you do is remove the bolt (Not the big slamming thing with the handle--that's the bolt carrier! The bolt is the smaller rectangular thing below it, with the firing pin.) remove the firing pin from the bolt--it is held in by a cross-pin--and CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN the firing pin channel. Then put the firing pin in the same side up as before. If you put it in upside down or backwards you will have GUARANTEED slam-fires! Anyhow, then put the firing pin cross-pin back, and you're in business.

There is not general agreement about lubricating the firing pin once it is clean. Some reccommend a dry lube. Some reccommend no lube at all. I use a very light oil (Kroil) with good results. A heavy grease is NOT reccommended!

When all this is done correctly, the firing pin will slide back and forth of its own weight when you tilt the SKS muzzle-down and muzzle-up. You can see it happen if you lock the bolt open and tilt the gun. With the firing pin moving freely it shouldn't be able to cause slam-fires.

The other action that can be taken if you reload is to use the hard CCI #34 primers that are made for this situation.

I had an SKS slam-fire once. I can't call it scary, but it was startling. According to my reading, the only time it's dangerous is when the shooter drops the gun in surprise, and it continues firing wildly as it hits the ground and bounces every which way. SKS shooters must just be aware of the possibility, and be sure to hold on to the gun and keep it pointed downrange when/if a slmafire occurs.
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Old April 28, 2006, 08:30 AM   #7
Colduglandon
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Smokey Joe

Thanks for the info. I will strip down the bolt and take a look at it before I take it to the range. I have some Kroll and will follow your recommendation.

As an asside, "Smokey Joe" was my father's nickname. He was a steam locamotive engineer and I was told that he made a habit of really smoking up the yard with coal fired engine.
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Old April 28, 2006, 12:50 PM   #8
Smokey Joe
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Another Smokey Joe

Paul Morceau--Yr Dad was Smokey Joe! I'm impressed. A steam locomotive engineer of course could earn the moniker--I hope he wore it proudly!

My own "nom de TFL" dates back to college days, and a very embarrasing incident involving a class field trip, a state Natural Resources Dept. forest fire fighting tanker, and a burst fire hose. I never got so wet so fast and so thouroughly in my life.

Being involved in science and in natural resources all my professional life--and of course shooting on my own time--of course the nickname stuck. I try to stay worthy.
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Old April 28, 2006, 11:53 PM   #9
G56
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Quote:
Is there such a thing, or are we talking about sensitivity of the priming compound
It's the sensitivity of the priming compound. Keep in mind that there are some other differences in primers that can cause them to be harder to seat, etc.

Here's an example:

"CCI? No. 34 and No. 41 MILITARY RIFLE PRIMERS

Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a ?slam-fire? can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components?including different primer sensitivity specifications?from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*."
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/defaul...=10&prod_id=30
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Old April 29, 2006, 12:03 AM   #10
Smokey Joe
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Ohhh, sensitivity, ohh...

G56--Well, learn something new every day! I thought (guessed, assumed) that the CCI #34 primers were made with harder brass than commercial-grade primers.

But it's a sensitivity issue! Whoda thunkit?

I guess if it works, it works.

Thx for learnin' me.
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Old May 1, 2006, 05:03 AM   #11
silicon wolverine
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These are also known as "arsenal" primers in some circles.

SW
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Old May 2, 2006, 05:41 PM   #12
1tomcat
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CCI uses harder cup material than federal, my model 28 barely knocks a dent in the cci primers but craters the federal primers nicely, believe federal is the softest primer
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