The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 21, 2006, 11:16 PM   #1
riverrat66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 394
I hate setting scenarios but....

I really dislike scenario questions, you know, like what if? There have been some really unbelievable ones and a few realistic ones. But there was a reply to one that got me wondering about something.

What would you do if a "rather large" shoplifter was beating the hell out of a security guard?

Remember this incident in Baton Rouge when the bystander shot & killed the guy who was beating the tar out of the cop? http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2343136.html This thread was about the guy taking four shots COM but my point is the bystander saved the cops life by shooting the BG. Would it be the same with the BG guy beating a security guard?

Not knowing if the security guard is a rent-a cop or an off duty LEO, what would you do if the guard was being beaten to a pulp and screaming for help? Remember the shoplifter was described as a "rather large" man and you're armed with your carry piece.
riverrat66 is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 02:10 AM   #2
rmagill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 142
If I do not have a shot, I would OC the suspect and respond accordingly. If I do have a shot, depending on the urgency, I would either verbally order him away from the guard and hold him, on the ground, at gunpoint (from a safe distance away) and call 911, or I would shoot him until he is no longer a threat and then call 911.
rmagill is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 02:31 AM   #3
Smoke Screen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Cold Rocks Hold, in the Aiel Waste
Posts: 174
The tricky part here is that you don't know if the security guard and the guy pounding him are old enemies and it has nothing to do with personal safety. The security guard might have been a hard-nosed prick who was egging the man on. Buuuuuuut....I see where you're going and we'll say that the man who is beating the security guard is more than likely up to no good.

I guarantee that if I pulled my piece and yelled some 'choice' words at him he'd stop. I've even heard of people pulling their pieces and shouting, "Stop! Police!" I imagine that would do the trick. Buuuuuut.....Lets say thats not the case and the man is handing out paddles.....Like that guy who got beat at a fast food restuarant in line and no one did anything....

Then, if I were sure that the man being beaten was in serious peril (life or serious injury) I would pistol whip the beat-er on the head or a boot to the face (assuming hes on the ground), which ever came more natural. Then I would at pistol point, hold the man there until police arrived. WHEW!!
__________________
Courage does not always roar...Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow"
Smoke Screen is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 06:11 AM   #4
threegun
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
Order him to stop at gunpoint several times. If the beating continues and became fear of death or great bodily injury to the guard, I would have no choice but to shoot.
threegun is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 08:45 AM   #5
T_man357
Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2006
Location: Boston, Mass
Posts: 15
Threeguns anwser above is probably the best option...IMO
__________________
American Pride Burns Inside!!
GOD Bless America!
T_man357 is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 09:21 AM   #6
ChrisJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 9
I was leaving a grocery store once and the theft alarm at the door went off (I think it was my magnetic access card from work that set it off). I knew I paid for everything and continued to walk to my car. The cashier and store manager then began to scream at me and chase me into the parking lot. I said it was a false alarm and continued to my vehicle. The store manager still screaming was about to physically restrain me when I ordered him not to touch me. He proceeded to rudely go through my cart. Realizing that he was in error he said I could go on my way. After some harsh comments from me I made him personally return 50+ items in my cart and apologize. I called his district manager and vowed never to shop there again. Now if he did attempt to restrain me I do not know how I would have reacted. I was very angry and it may have come to blows. Now if a spectator OC'd me or shot me I would be very upset as would my wife and baby girls. If you do not personally know the individual or are not 100% sure of the situation stay out of it and call the police. Real life has no place for Rambo's.

- Chris
ChrisJ is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 09:55 AM   #7
shootero
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2
Pistol Shooting-hand injury

i've been undergoing rather intensive pistol training for the past few months. after so much training, i'm starting to feel an ache at the fleshy part under my right thumb. my thumb which is always placed on the pistol grip has kind off beome more bent now. i am worried that the long repetitive sessions of having to bend my thumb towards my palm (when gripping on tightly to my pistol grip) will eventually result in some serious hand injury. will the thumb lose its sensitivity (become numb, esp starting from the top side of the thumb...ie not the palm side of the thumb)? will i not be able to grip things using my thumb and index finger in future? Will the clinical problem called "trigger finger" or other flexion related problems occur?

anyone who has experience similar problems, kindly share your answers and experience. thanks.
shootero is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 12:45 PM   #8
SW_fan
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2006
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 82
one guy unarmed? I'd kick his ass of the LEO. I'm not afraid of any man if he is alone and unarmed. I would deffinately assist, but I wouldn't draw unless there was a weapon involved. Laying down an old fasioned ass whoopin feels much better than shooting him would IMO. Plus no one dies and you dont end up in cuffs.
SW_fan is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 07:08 PM   #9
Rightwinger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 168
ChrisJ, I bet if someone drew a firearm and told you to stop you would immediately cease... In which case you would not be shot.

Threegun has this one right, verbal warning (VERY LOUD) and then it's in the assailants hands. EVERY fight has the potential to be a lethal one. A blow to the wrong part of the head, and it's over.
__________________
"Appeasement reflects the hope that the crocodile will eat you last."- Winston Churchill
Rightwinger is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 07:14 PM   #10
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
+1 for Threegun's answer here too.

The cause and relationship of the two individuals is not a concern. You have one "rather large" guy beating the tar out of another person (assumed to be of average stature) when you come upon the scene. Your only goal is to prevent serious bodily injury or death to loser of the fight.

Observation is your primary tool here. A large man is capable of seriously hurting someone who's much smaller, especially if the "victim" is already disoriented by several hits. How much blood is there on either party? Is the "victim" still striking back effectively or has he covered up for protection? Is the larger man delivering multiple, rapid blows or just every time the "victim" tries to hit back? Is the "victim" on the ground still being attacked or are they still standing?

In a situation like this, it's sometimes necessary to repeat commands several times, especially if the assailant doesn't seem to hear you. For the same reason pilots repeat "Eject" three times, the brain is so focused on one thing it excludes other input. If the situation looks dire for the "victim" then you are acting to preserve a person from great bodily harm or death -- even if he instigated the fight.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old March 22, 2006, 08:54 PM   #11
Anthony2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 360
+1 for threegun's answer....

coming upon said situation I would yell at BG to release victim and not draw my weapon unless mace did not work...

Don't forget:

At this point we don't know if the "victim" is a victim or an agressor who had the tables turned...keep ALL parties detained and seperated until LE arrives.

IMO
__________________
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."-Voltaire

"Baaa or Freedom!" - Ted Nugent

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." - Ghandi

"The Addiction to Guns, The only addiction to ever SAVE a life!"- Me
Anthony2 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10249 seconds with 9 queries