The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 9, 2000, 04:47 PM   #1
petej88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 1999
Location: US
Posts: 510
I'm sure a bottlnecked reloader can help out here .......

7 out of 80 rounds had case damage. Basically the shoulder area
looks almost wrinkled. So instead of having the diameter of aprox .420, it
was .427 -- ouch. The other 73 rounds look perfect and the bullets are very
strongly seated in the little 357 SIG case (think of it as a little rifle
bottlenecked cartridge).

Here's the facts:

I loaded 200 rounds using Western Bullet 124 grain flat point plated bullets.
Every round was perfect. I have loaded thousands of rounds of 124 grain flat
point Rainer bullets perfectly as well.

I was using brand new Starline brass and lubing them properly for these
experiments.

Then I decided to run a test with eighty Laser Cast hard lead 122 grain
flat points from Oregon Trail. Here's some ideas of where I think I might
have done something wrong:

1. I should have belled the mouth a bit more? Some bullets did have a little
shaving issue going on. I just need to make sure the 357 SIG bullet won't
slip.
2. The RCBS roll crimper is kind of long for a Dillon 550. The bottom of the
crimper is literally only about .003 from touching the shell plate.

I believe the case was wrinkled at the crimp station. I could try backing
off the crimper a little, but not much. Maybe there was some slight shell
plate movement that simply crushed these 7 cases? If I can't back off and
maintain the ideal roll crimp, then maybe I can cut off a little bit of the
end of the die if it on rare occasions slams into the shell plate?

Or, I could go back to the Lee crimper, which is a combo of a taper/roll crimp
die.

Since the hard lead bullet is an extra 1/1000" in diameter, .356,
instead of .355, maybe I was simply crushing the poor little case with too
much pressure.

note: I don't necessarily wish to debate whether the 357 SIG cartridge
headspaces on the case mouth or shoulder or both, etc. I've already given
my evidence and those of others on my site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~petej55

Any constructive ideas of how to fix this issue are much appreciated.
petej88 is offline  
Old October 9, 2000, 06:45 PM   #2
trlmech
Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 85
Back off on your lube. The die is machined to close tollerance and when you add lube it has to go somewhere and the shoulder collapes under the pressure of your press.With all due respects to Brycleem and you propably dont know what that meens a little dab will do you.
trlmech is offline  
Old October 9, 2000, 07:34 PM   #3
Bud Helms
Staff
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 13,013
trimech ... ... 'haven't heard that one in a while.

petej88, trimech may be right. If I was reloading a .30'06 and got shoulder dents, I'd suspect too much lube.
Bud Helms is offline  
Old October 9, 2000, 07:49 PM   #4
Nukem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2000
Posts: 709

Do you mean wrinkled around the shoulder or is the neck telescoped into the shoulder?

If it is wrinkled around the shoulder, then it is too much case lube, try one of the light spray lubes like Oneshot or Dillon. The other possibility is a plugged vent hole in the sizer die.
Nukem is offline  
Old October 9, 2000, 08:14 PM   #5
beemerb
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 2, 1999
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,759
If this happens when you are seating the bullet, your die adjustment is off.Turn your die up a turn and your seating adjustment downa turn.The die is crimping the case before the bullet is seated all the way.
If it happens on first stage(resize)then it is the lube.

------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
beemerb is offline  
Old October 10, 2000, 12:38 PM   #6
Bogie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2000
Location: Job hunting on the road...
Posts: 3,827
What I'd do is make sure you're crimping at a separate station from bullet seating. I _really_ like my Lee Factory Crimp die that I use with .223 stuff.

For lube, I recommend Hornady One-Shot.

Bogie is offline  
Old October 10, 2000, 02:11 PM   #7
petej88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 1999
Location: US
Posts: 510
Folks, thanks for the suggestions. I'll be trying them out this weekend.
petej88 is offline  
Old October 12, 2000, 03:23 PM   #8
Chris McDermott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2000
Posts: 245
Are you supposed to be using a roll crimp with the 357 SIG? I know it has a shoulder to headspace off of, but I thought all of the auto pistols cartridges use a taper crimp?
Looking at the picture of the Laser Cast 122 gr bullet on their website I don't see a crimping groove for the end of the case to be roll'ed into; this often will cause problems with cases collapsing (wrinkling the shoulder). You shouldn't use a roll crimp unless there is a proper crimping groove in the bullet. The only other option is to buy a tool to put a "cannelure" on the bullet, which acts like a crimping groove. You can buy this tool from CH4D at http://www.ch4d.com/ch4d/Catalog/Page16a.htm

[This message has been edited by Chris McDermott (edited October 12, 2000).]
Chris McDermott is offline  
Old October 12, 2000, 06:36 PM   #9
petej88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 1999
Location: US
Posts: 510
Chris,

You nailed it right on. I normally cut my own mellow cannelure groove and roll crimp, which works great on these bullets:
West Coast 124 grain flat point plated
Rainier 124 grain flat point plated
Speer 125 grain 357 SIG hollow points

I figured I could easily cut a crimp ring into the laser cast lead bullet directly with the RCBS die. But when Oregon Trail says they make hard lead bullets, they ain't kidding. So I have to back off on the roll crimp or use a taper crimp instead.

I will experiment in the near future a little bit more. Looks like I'll probably have one die set used exclusively for the plated bullets and another die set for the harder bullets. For me at any rate, it's really difficult to put a decent cannelure on a hard bullet.

Regarding your question about whether a roll crimp should be used on the 357 SIG: Please visit my site below for the facts of how the 357 SIG headspaces on both the case mouth and shoulder, the latter being more critical -- unusual cartridge, but fun to play with.

Again, thanks for the help everyone

------------------
My Site: http://home.earthlink.net/~petej55
Steyr Talk Forum, etc: http://www.unitedforums.com/firearmsforums.htm
petej88 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09552 seconds with 9 queries