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Old September 24, 2000, 10:40 AM   #1
Hutch
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I finally got my Speer #8 at auction (thanks, fellow TFL'er). Published in 1970, it's clearly not for the faint of heart. Imagine a 125gr hp out of 6" K38 (.38spl, remember) at well over 1400FPS!! Same bullet out of a 6" M27 in .357 at a skosh over 1600FPS. Clearly, either the powders and guns were better back then, or the lawyers are worse now. Maximium loads indeed!
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Old September 25, 2000, 09:24 AM   #2
tonyz
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Hutch

What was the +P load for a 158Gr Swc in 38 Spl.Using Bullseye for powder.

Thanks
Tony Z

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[This message has been edited by tonyz (edited September 25, 2000).]
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Old September 25, 2000, 09:27 AM   #3
Southla1
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Hutch, the funny part of it is that in the Speer #7 and #8, for the calibers I reload, I worked up to max in ALL of them except my 25-06, wiht no pressure signs whatsoever. The 25 did show some so the max on that rifle is about 2.2 grains below what the book shows for the 120 grain bullet. Funny part is the powders back then and the ones today act the same............must be the lawyers.

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Old September 25, 2000, 10:50 AM   #4
Hutch
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Lawyers. It's the 90% of 'em that give the other 10% a bad name.

Tony, I work out of town, and I've left my book at my residence. I'll have to get back to you Friday. IIRC the manual doesn't acutally list +P loads seperately. The powders listed don't always correspond to the ones currently available, either. I assume the bullet you're referring to is cast? They (Speer) tone down the lead bullet loads severely due to the fact that the Speer non-jacketed bullets are dead-soft swaged lead, and will lead badly at any respectable velocity. Jacketed bullet info might be the most valuable. Bullseye is soooooo fast, I don't think the velocity will be as eye-popping as some of the other recipes.
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Old September 25, 2000, 05:46 PM   #5
Paul B.
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Just a point to ponder. Alliant has taken over the manufacture of Hercules sporting powders, and IMR has taken over the manufacture of DuPont's sporting powders. Loads with Hercules #2400 are now way too high in my .44 magnums and .357 magnums. I had to reduce the .44s by 2.0 gr. and the .357s by 1.5 grains. In the case of IMR's powders, a pet load for the 30-06 with 150 gr. bullets had to be reduced by 2.0 gr.
Why the increase in burning rate? I don't know, but if you run out od Hercules or DuPont's versions of their powders and go to the newer powders, be damn careful using your old data. It might prove to be damaging to you gun, and maybe your body parts.
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Old September 26, 2000, 02:44 PM   #6
saands
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Paul:
Thanks for this warning (re: 2400) ... if I'm not mistaken the current loads in their literature are the same as the ones I found 11 years ago with the pound of 2400 that I am still using ... I think it's the same pound ... I'll check the date. Anyway, the max loads haven't changed and that's scary if the powders have! Do people usually re-work their loads if they change powder lots? Sounds like a lot of work, but given the fact that in our less popular loads (for me = full house .357's) a pound of powder can last a while, it makes me wonder.
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Old September 27, 2000, 12:49 PM   #7
Southla1
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by saands:
Do people usually re-work their loads if they change powder lots? [/quote]

I re work them if the load is ANYWHERE above a starting load. It is a lot of trouble, so that is why when I get powder I check the lot number if its more than a pound or I use a lot of surplus power in the 8# keg. That lasts a long time with no need to re work a load.



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Old September 27, 2000, 02:41 PM   #8
Robert the41MagFan
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And if you are really feeling manly with those M27, M28 and 627's, Try these!



Now, these are lawyer loads!

Robert
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Old September 27, 2000, 03:05 PM   #9
Paul B.
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Saands. I just looked at the new Speer book, and I had to go 0.8 gr. less than what they show, and my bullet is a bit lighter than the one they used. I use the Lyman #358477, which is a 150 gr. Keith style bullet. In my alloy, it comes out at close to 158 gr. Recoil is quite a bit more stout than Federal 158 gr. jacketed .357 ammo. I use only cast bullets, for the most part in my handguns.
There is an article on (www.sixgunner.com/guests/paco.htm) about the .357 mag and it's original loading. You might find it interesting. I used to use the very same load with a 158 gr. cast bullet for years. It was when I got hold of Alliant's version of #2400 that I ran into trouble.
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Old September 28, 2000, 02:51 PM   #10
Hutch
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Holy Cow!!! Was this from an unvented pressure-test barrel, or were these velocities actually measured in front of a revolver?!?!?!?! I chrono'd 2000 fps with Federal 125JHP (357B) out of my 10" Contender, and I thought the chrono was hosed. 1866fps from a revolver beggars the imagination.
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Old September 28, 2000, 10:40 PM   #11
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Those numbers are from a test barrel. The 125gr HDY XTP on 21.9gr of H110 is only 1690fps out of my 6 1/2" Blackhawk. That's plenty hot anyway.

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Old September 29, 2000, 04:07 PM   #12
Hutch
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Okay, here's the info

Bullseye Powder and 158gr LSWC
3.0 gr for 707FPS
3.5 gr for 880FPS

No plus P loads, no loads for JHP's.

[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited September 29, 2000).]
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