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Old January 30, 2006, 12:49 AM   #1
duck911
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Bump in the night.....

Here's the scenario...

2 AM, you're sound asleep next to your wife, and your daughter is in the next bedroom. You live in a 2 story house and it's big enough and your ceiling fan loud enough that you likely wouldn't hear any subtle break-in noises from downstairs.

Good neighborhood, no previous history of break-ins anywhere nearby.

Suddenly, the dog at the foot of your bed jumps to the floor and races to the door, hair on end, growling. It wakes you up but you think you might have also heard a noise too. Maybe. Or, maybe it was just a dream??

What do you do?

1) Arm yourself and start clearing the hallway and rooms as you head downstairs to investigate?

2) Let the dog out first, then follow (armed or unarmed?)

3) Be very quite and listen for any further signs of forced entry?

4) Send the wife? (kidding......)

What if the dog has a history of false alarms, where a strong wind sends him barking?

As I'm sure you can guess, this is my scenario. I'm an avid hunter and gun nut, although not ex-military (or any other formal training) and I don't shoot compitition. With a shotgun in my hands I'm VERY confident in my ability to aquire a target and get of multiple, accurate shots. My 870 is an extention of my body, I have fired thousands upon thousands of rounds through it. Years of quail, chukar, dove, ducks, and geese has that effect on a guy!

My problem is, I'm no commando. I've read posts here the last couple of months with a lot of interest and introspect, but many folks here have the training, background, and spousal support to feel comfortable in these offensive-minded HD situations, where I do not.

Don't read me wrong. If my life or family's life is threatened, I will be pulling the trigger until the threat stops. NO QUESTION.

But what's a good middle ground? Does it depend on the individual? From a strictly tactical perspective, would I be wrong to not investigate *ANY AND EVERY* odd occurance at night fully armed?

Maybe (ok, I'm SURE) I am in need of some formal training that would help me understand threats (actual and perceived) and my response. I hate to alarm the wife and wake everyone up as I head downstairs armed to investigate wind-blown screen doors. On the other hand, it seems a small price to pay for the one instance where it was a real threat.

And I underreacting? Am I WAY behind the HD education bellcurve?

HELP!

Thanks,
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Old January 30, 2006, 01:18 AM   #2
gac009
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I am a noob as well but I would...

1.) new quiet ceiling fan, its worth it.

2.)have a 18.5"-20" brl 870, on the wall near the bed.

3.) listen to your dog and listen to your gut, if you have to get up every night and walk the perimiter, its worth it if your family stays safe.

4.) check your daughters room first as she may just be sneaking in or out to sit on the poarch because she cant sleep or somthing, always account for everyone.

5.) Check the stairs that lead down first, most houses on have one set that lead to the second floor and this is your strongest point of defence, know where to look first on your way down, places that someone could hide and wait for you if they hear your coming down.

6.) Keep nightlights in the rooms downstairs as close to entry points like windows and doors that lead outside as possible, so you can see if they have been opened or messed with from accross the room. Also you will be able to see well while you are on the stairs in the dark but anyone in the more well lit rooms will have a harder time seeing you.

7.) And finally I would go downstairs first without the dog (in case he makes alot of noise and also as protection for your wife) and listen real good. If I dont see anything when I get to the bottom of the stairs and I am still worried I would back up and get the dog without ever leaving the stairs and follow him around.


These are just some ideas that I would try to use, if any are folly, anyone please feel free to chime in.
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Old January 30, 2006, 01:22 AM   #3
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Also you mentioned that you are quite the bird hunter, I suggest 01 buck shot, instead of birdshot.
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Old January 30, 2006, 01:55 AM   #4
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Hi, duck911,
This one's got my brain churning. Please describe in your two story home whether all bedrooms/persons are sleeping on the upstairs or are split by lower master bedroom, upper 2nd/3rd bedrooms etc. Good advice from gac009so far. I'll weigh in when I know some more details.
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Old January 30, 2006, 02:29 AM   #5
IndianaDean
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If the dog gets excited and barks at false alarms, that makes it tough. At my house I only get very alert when noises occur that cause our cats to look toward the stairs, jump down and run under the bed. If they don't react, there's no threat. They've been 100%.
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Old January 30, 2006, 03:46 AM   #6
Double Naught Spy
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First, cut the crap out of the scenario that is not important and then consider the real issues to you and your family.

Whether or not you live in a good neighborhood means nothing other than it is an admission of complacency by those to which something bad happens and who don't seem to understand why.

The hour of the night does not matter.

Since you have a dog that is obviously bothered by some sound, let the dog out of the bedroom and see what happens.

Just curious, if you think somebody might have broken in and you and your family are upstairs, then why the hell would you go downstairs? Where will the danger be? Downstairs.

You have a cherry situation. If you think someone is in your home, you simply use the stairs to your advantage as a fatal funnel and simply ambush the intruder if he comes up the stairs.

By the way, since you think you might have an intruder, why haven't you notified your wife of this development, had her call 911, and then collect the daughter to move to the most secure location y'all have upstairs? Why haven't you armed your wife?

You stated that,
Quote:
I hate to alarm the wife and wake everyone up as I head downstairs armed to investigate wind-blown screen doors. On the other hand, it seems a small price to pay for the one instance where it was a real threat.
Dude, if you have felt it necessary to arm yourself with a gun to recon the situation, even if just from the top of the stairs, that means you are prepared for a lethal force encounter. Just what more is needed to convince you that your wife needs to be awake and aware of what is going on? You hate to wake her? You won't be doing her much good if you sneak out of the bedroom to investigate a noise and the first sound she hears is a gunshot from where the bad guy shot you.

So what information does she have to work with? Let's see.
1 Gun shot
2 You are not with her
3 You don't answer when she calls
4 She is unarmed
5 She does know for sure whether the noise she heard was a gun shot, something outside, or whatever as she was asleep and in being awakened by the noise is likely unable to identify it, realize it was a gun shot, and why there may have been a shot. For all she knows, you went down stairs and committed suicide.
6 So now you have a very scared wife and daughter who are in a panic, but you dont' care as you got shot and have bled out. The don't know what is going on but chances are they aren't going to make too many of the right decisions given how their introduction to the event unfolded. So by not bringing your wife up to speed on the events, you have helped to assure that she will be forces with overwhelming confusion as to what is happening and as a result probably not do what is best for her and your daughter. In other words, you have doomed them as well.

Of course, this is all just alarmist worst case scenario stuff, but the worst case is always a possibility.


ere's the scenario...

2 AM, you're sound asleep next to your wife, and your daughter is in the next bedroom. You live in a 2 story house and it's big enough and your ceiling fan loud enough that you likely wouldn't hear any subtle break-in noises from downstairs.

Good neighborhood, no previous history of break-ins anywhere nearby.

Suddenly, the dog at the foot of your bed jumps to the floor and races to the door, hair on end, growling. It wakes you up but you think you might have also heard a noise too. Maybe. Or, maybe it was just a dream??

What do you do?

1) Arm yourself and start clearing the hallway and rooms as you head downstairs to investigate?

2) Let the dog out first, then follow (armed or unarmed?)

3) Be very quite and listen for any further signs of forced entry?

4) Send the wife? (kidding......)

What if the dog has a history of false alarms, where a strong wind sends him barking?

As I'm sure you can guess, this is my scenario. I'm an avid hunter and gun nut, although not ex-military (or any other formal training) and I don't shoot compitition. With a shotgun in my hands I'm VERY confident in my ability to aquire a target and get of multiple, accurate shots. My 870 is an extention of my body, I have fired thousands upon thousands of rounds through it. Years of quail, chukar, dove, ducks, and geese has that effect on a guy!

My problem is, I'm no commando. I've read posts here the last couple of months with a lot of interest and introspect, but many folks here have the training, background, and spousal support to feel comfortable in these offensive-minded HD situations, where I do not.

Don't read me wrong. If my life or family's life is threatened, I will be pulling the trigger until the threat stops. NO QUESTION.

But what's a good middle ground? Does it depend on the individual? From a strictly tactical perspective, would I be wrong to not investigate *ANY AND EVERY* odd occurance at night fully armed?

Maybe (ok, I'm SURE) I am in need of some formal training that would help me understand threats (actual and perceived) and my response. I hate to alarm the wife and wake everyone up as I head downstairs armed to investigate wind-blown screen doors. On the other hand, it seems a small price to pay for the one instance where it was a real threat.

And I underreacting? Am I WAY behind the HD education bellcurve?
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Old January 30, 2006, 03:54 AM   #7
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First, turn off the fan. Then I would probably go with some combination of #1 and #3 upstairs. Sneak to a better spot to hear from. If you detect nothing, do some more sneaking/clearing. If you do decide that there is someone downstairs, alert the rest of your family, take up a position at a choke point, call the police and wait, unless you have kids/guests sleeping downstairs.

Of course this is all hypothetical. No situation is as cut and dried as it is here.
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Old January 30, 2006, 06:02 AM   #8
czc3513
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Get an alarm system.
Simple door sensors and glass break detectors...
I dont have one but its not my house.
I can only hope that the intruder wakes me (I dont have a dog), that I can fight my way to my safe with my knife, unlock the safe, get and load my gun.... :barf:
Its not my house or my rules but we are in a good neighborhood (outside of neighborhood) and the doors are locked.
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Old January 30, 2006, 08:52 AM   #9
DavidJBlythe
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Quote:
Get an alarm system.
Simple door sensors and glass break detectors...
I dont have one but its not my house.
I can only hope that the intruder wakes me (I dont have a dog), that I can fight my way to my safe with my knife, unlock the safe, get and load my gun....
Its not my house or my rules but we are in a good neighborhood (outside of neighborhood) and the doors are locked.
Are you kidding?! Sounds like some new rules need to be made. You can either do it now, when it's gonna count...or later after something terrible happens.
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Old January 30, 2006, 10:45 AM   #10
Mikeyboy
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If you have all the doors and windows locked at night with an alarm system, and your not a heavy sleeper you should be able to hear someone trying to break in, its not like the guy is going to be a ninja or break in like a scene from Mission Impossible, no matter how stealthy, if everything is locked up tight, the thief will make some noise breaking in. I think your option is to turn off the fan, grab a handgun and put it in your pocket and check your daughter's room. If everyone is upstairs sleeping, and your still hearing noises, something is up, and you go into home defense mode. You don't want to get the shotgun out and start sweeping rooms...what if its your daughter going to get a drink of water, or perhaps sneaking in a boyfriend for a smouch. While as a father I would not mind frightening a boyfriend to death as I investigate the noise with a shotgun, more serious accidents do happen. Unlike young kids who may sleep thru the night and just run occasionally into your room when they have a nightmare, teenagers are more independent and are more likely to move around more at night. As your kids get older your going to hear more bumps in the night, and sweeping your house with a loaded shotgun every time is not the answer. Ignoring a strange bump in the night may not be wise either. A pistol in the pajama waistband or robe pocket, and a simple check to see if all the usual suspects are asleep. Your still armed, and your less likely to shoot a family member by accident.

P.S +1 for 00 Spy, let you wife know what that your checking on a noise, and if you think someone is breaking in, defend the upstairs and call 911.

Last edited by Mikeyboy; January 31, 2006 at 10:33 AM.
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Old January 30, 2006, 11:14 AM   #11
KC135
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Too little necessary info in scenario

Daughter 3 or 23?

One stairway or two?

Do you have master bedroom set up as a safe room?

Cell phone in room?

Toy Poodle or Dob?

I could go on but I am sure you understand what I am saying.

Our bedroom has a cell phone in it. Dog is sent out with command 'Go find' and I love our dog, but she is more expendable than we are.

I defend the only stairway while wife contacts police. Shotgun loaded with slugs. Revolvers in the bedroom. Wolf ears are next to shotgun.

They can have anything downstairs. House keys will be thrown out window to responding police, and they can clear the downstairs and basement.
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Old January 30, 2006, 11:35 AM   #12
Shawn Dodson
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Among other things, if I have reason to believe there's human activity downstairs, I'm probably going to holler: "Who's there!"
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Old January 30, 2006, 11:46 AM   #13
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My first thought would be to gently nudge the wife awake and lovingly ask for her to get me a drink of water. If she comes back with the water I can just go back to sleep... if she doesn't come back... well, I can still just go back to sleep.
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Old January 30, 2006, 02:06 PM   #14
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Since I am not married, and dont have kids, I think my reactions are completely different from anyone elses. If I think I heard a noise, then I assume it was real. If I feel threatened by it, I would climb out my window onto the roof of the porch, firearm in hand, drop down to the ground, and proceed to 'clear the area' from the outside in. If the doors are still secure, I climb back up and through the window. If they are not, I call the police, and find a good spot to hide outside, using the breached entry as a choke point until the LEO's arrive.
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Old January 30, 2006, 04:50 PM   #15
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Most important thing is identification. You need to be 100% were everybody is at all times before pulling that trigger. If I were you I would go to my daughter's room and check on her. If she is sound asleep, and noises still persist, I would bring her to the master bedroom quickly. Wake the wife up. and quickly give her a heads up. Go back to stairs and see what you can see. If the threat is real, retreat to the safest point (which should be your master bedroom; if it isn't, make it (i.e. safe room). Dial 911 and (depending on what state you live in) give some warning to the BG just to be on the safe side of legal. I think you'll know what to do from there if the BG feels like kicking it up a notch.
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Old January 30, 2006, 04:58 PM   #16
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You do what any self-respecting man would do you hide under the bed.
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Old January 30, 2006, 05:04 PM   #17
Doug.38PR
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I've had a similar situation before as have most people. I just pick up my .38, check the house over, walk outside with gun and flashlight and look around.

If I am FAIRLY CERTAIN it was an intruder or prowler of some kind, call the constable and let them know you quite possibly had a prowler and to be on the lookout.
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Old January 30, 2006, 08:17 PM   #18
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For me, . . . the first key would be the dog: Pomeranian or Rottie, . . . I would ask if I trusted the message I am getting from the dog.

If I did, . . . I would assume bg downstairs, . . . bring daughter quietly to MBR, . . . arm my wife, . . . call 911, . . . take up defensive position at top of stairs, . . . await LEO's, . . . communicate with them thru 911 operator.

If I didn't trust the dog, . . . but was concerned, . . . do everything up to calling 911, . . . leave cell with my wife with instructions to call 911 at the first big sound she hears. Go very quietly with my .45 in one hand, . . . 3 cell flashlight in the other (turned off, . . . mainly as defensive club), . . . scout out the downstairs.

First thing to do, though, . . . get a LEO friend to walk through it with you. Practice clearing your own house, . . . let him help you find the danger places, . . . take the good advice you were given about night lights, . . . door alarms, etc. That way if you have to do it, . . . you won't be learning how to do it while you are looking for Mr. bg.

May God bless,
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Old January 30, 2006, 09:29 PM   #19
duck911
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Thanks for the replies, gang.

I'll try to add some more information.

My dog is a loyal and pretty protective pab. He NEVER gives me a false alert. If he barks or growls, someone, or something made a noise. It may be a dish fell in the kitchen or someone broke a window, but he doesn't interrupt his beauty sleep for nothing...

My daughter is 14 years old and the door to her room is directly across from our door. Shooting from inside the master bedroom is not an option as any shots fired towards my door would be in her direction. The house is a tri-level, with all 3 bedrooms at the top of the single flight of stairs, which are a straight run up (no corners). No other occupants in the house.

My wife is always aware when I head downstairs to investigate an issue, as the dog also wakes her up. I didn't mean to say she sleeps through it all and I never wake her up....

But, she does not shoot, so short of calling 911 there's not much she can do. Also, no escape from our bedroom, unless a 20 foot plunge sounds like fun.

I prefer a shotgun for home defense, so a discreet check of my daughters room is not really possible. If I'm leaving the bedroom, it's with the shotgun. I do not shoot birdshot out of the shotgun, I shoot Hevi-Shot "Dead Coyote". That is 50 separate .20 caliber pellets (T-shot) that are faster than lead, pattern better than lead, are denser than lead, and have more destructive power than 00 or 0000 lead buck. This has been the focus of quite a debate on the shotgun forum here, and I don't want to go into it on this thread. Needless to say, the ones who think I'm using a quail load on a BG have never used the stuff, and they have NO IDEA of the absolute destructive power of this load. It will punch a ***gaping*** hole in a BG at 10 yards.

but I digress....

A few of you gave some great advise that I never considered, so thanks for that. I think I'd benefit from some real tactical training. Also, I thought calling to to a BG or having a flashight was a no-no? Doesn't that eliminate the eliment of surprise? If I wanted to light up the room I'd use my 2 million candlepower spotlight. That, shined in your face, literally makes you blind.

But I hear 2 different general schools of thoought here:
1) head downstairs to investigate.
2) Holeup at a logical ambush point and wait.

What is the tactically CORRECT thing to do?

Thanks,
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Old January 30, 2006, 09:55 PM   #20
1inthechamber
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Does no one have a house alarm?

I'm a very light sleeper. I can be sleeping good and still hear things. I can't explain it, but I've always been like that ever since I was a kid. I've learned to seperate normal sounds to something that doesn't sound right. Like something or someone 'crunching the grass' or walking outside on the sidewalk.
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Old January 30, 2006, 10:03 PM   #21
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Speaking strictly from a military answer: the correct tactical decision can only be a defensive posture.

1. For all tense and purposes, . . . you are alone.
2. The opposition is an unknown quantity, . . . maybe 1, . . . maybe 10.
3. Your only support is the local LEO's, . . . at the end of a 911 call.

Defense, . . .Defense, . . . Defense!

You have a natural funnel for them as they come up the stairs, . . .

You may have the element of surprize, . . . at least the element of first shot.

Stay upstairs with your family, . . . let the LEO's do their job. They get paid for it, . . . wear body armor, . . . have more resources, . . . and most of them get a kick out of putting another bg behind bars.

May God bless,
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Old January 30, 2006, 10:39 PM   #22
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Send my wife down.
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Old January 30, 2006, 10:40 PM   #23
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"I'm probably going to holler: "Who's there!""

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Old January 31, 2006, 02:58 AM   #24
gac009
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Well it all comes down to this for me, how sure are you that there is someone in your house?

It sounded to me like you were unsure and wanted to know a good way to investigate. Ofcouse if you KNOW for a fact that there is someone in your house you get your daugter in the masterbedroom with your wife and dog, she calls 911 and you guard the bedroom from a tactial vantage point.

In the end you have to make a judgement call, the initial inspection down the stairs is gathering intel, thats why you dont leave actually leave the stairs or take the dog. If you dont think that someone is in your house you investigate and secure the perimeter. If you decide that someone may very well be in your house then go into defensive mode and either you can secure a room (the bedroom) and call the police.

Basically.

1.) Hear noise/Dog alert.
2.) Gather intel, do you hear anything else, hows the dog reacting ect.
3.) Judgement Call
A.)Intruder- secure family in bedroom, call cops. Let the police know where in the house you are and that you are armed.
B.) Non Intruder - sweep the house, secure perimeter.


Another good back up plan would be to have, if possible, a planed/practiced route to exit the house that you can quickly secure. For me, if a buglar comes through the back window I go out the front door, and vice versa. I live in a first floor apt so thats easier for me but I would conider it just in case.
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Old January 31, 2006, 11:09 AM   #25
Mikeyboy
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Your house is laid out similar to mine. Only difference is I have two younger kids. Shotgun with bird shot is great, because like you I have the kids room across from my door so overpenetration is bad. I have two Glaser in my 9mm magazine with the rest being 115g JHP. My drill is check on the kids, and if they are asleep, I get my wife and tell her to go in the kids room with a phone and a gun and lock the door. My wife or I would call 911, as I covered the stairs (probably yelling to get the ____ out of my house). If I get to this point, I pretty sure that someone is downstairs. I'm not going to investigate until the PD arrives. Your better in a defensive position protecting your family then wandering downstairs and putting possible multiple badguys on the defensive against you.

Now if everyone is upstairs asleep and your not certain what that noise was downstairs but you feel its probably was not a burglar, then I would go check it out armed and let the wife know. If you live in your home long enough, you know what sounds are normal and what are not. You will know if someone is walking around downstairs, 99% of the time you will check a weird noise and it will be nothing bad. In that 1% chance that it is not, if you start screaming and shooting your wife should automatically get a gun and a phone and run in the kid's room and lock the door and call 911.

One big thing is to discuss it with your daughter. As long as she knows that dad may be checking on noises at night carrying his shotgun, then she will not be freaked out when you do it.
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