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Old January 15, 2006, 11:41 PM   #1
tvick66
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Flipped Primer removal

Hello all,
I use the priming system on my press and first began reloading 357 which uses the small pistol primers. Just setup for 45 acp today and the first primer seating felt wierd and when I inspected the seat, the primer was in the wrong way! I though that I had set it in the cup correctly but I reloaded a couple more and then I felt the fourth do something different, and sure enough it was flipped. Stopped reloading and checked some websites and found the fix, there was a bur that was causing the spring to deppress then pop out flipping the primer. Anyway, I have two brand new cases that have primers I need to remove. If I soak them in motor oil overnight, will that deactivate them so I can run through the deprimer?
Thanks,
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Old January 16, 2006, 12:13 AM   #2
Dave R
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My advice would be to use a bullet puller and pull the bullets and powder (but sounds like you were gonna do that anyway.) Then yes, soak to deactivate and deprime carefully. Or you could just throw those two cases away...
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Old January 16, 2006, 12:31 AM   #3
Mal H
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I honestly don't think you have to deactivate them to deprime them. If the bullet and powder haven't been removed, do that first and then just deprime as usual. With the primers upside down, there is nothing for the anvil to press against so the probability of them going off is nil.

If you do feel strongly that you need to deactivate them, I sure wouldn't use oil or anything like that. First of all, it may not deactivate them and secondly I wouldn't want to have an oily case to deal with.

In any case, you do wear safety glasses at all times while reloading - right?
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Old January 16, 2006, 01:05 AM   #4
Kayser
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I've done it right with the decapper. Just push real slow, wear your glasses and you'll be just fine. Primers aren't that powerful. If you want to dispose of it, I'd recommend reseating it the right direction, put the empty case in your gun and fire it (into a towel or something). Safe, reasonably quiet and 100% disposed
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Old January 16, 2006, 01:46 AM   #5
Smokey Joe
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Getting rid of primers

Tvick66--I agree w/Kaiser, except for the part about priming a case and "firing" it in yr gun. I've done that, and priming the cases took time, and firing them dirtied up my gun so it needed cleaning.

The next time I had primers to dispose of, I just put them one at a time on a pc. of railroad track that I use for an anvil, and hit them smartly with a hammer. Do this outdoors, BTW. Primer fumes contain lead. Breathing lead isn't good for you. NOTE: WHEN DOING THIS, OR WHEN EXPLODING PRIMERS IN ANY WAY, WEAR EYE/EAR PROTECTION!!!!!
This was no more noisy than priming cases and firing them, and had the advantage of not priming the cases, and not having to clean a gun afterwards.

Heartily agree that chemically deactivating primers is difficult to do reliably. They are just too well made, and too stable!

BTW, I have experimentally re-used primers after removing them from cases with the depriming die, and the 20-30 or so I did this with, performed perfectly. I did, however, make sure to use them for practice. Would not want to try this where depending on a round to be sure-fire would be any sort of issue.

I even used one once where I half-crushed the primer by accidentally trying to insert a second primer into the primer pocket. That round also fired with no apparent ill effects.

Nowadays, primers are really, really stable, and really, really dependable, and really, really hard to kill--except by a sudden blow!
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Old January 16, 2006, 02:09 AM   #6
Blue Heeler
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Throw them away. It's only a few cents anyhow.
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Old January 16, 2006, 05:02 AM   #7
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I agree with blue healer brass is cheap ive got a pail of mistakes that when full i just toss in the pond.
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Old January 16, 2006, 07:06 PM   #8
Russ5924
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When it happens to me I always deprime them,have a small Lee press I use for that.Don't think I would want to try it on my normal press with all that powder sitting above it If you do take them out just go very easy even upside down they will go bang
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Old January 16, 2006, 09:55 PM   #9
JJB2
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i too have CAREFULLY deprimed mistakenly upside down primers on my lee press.... i just put em in the trash.. some of these guys don't live near railroad tracks like some others of us!!






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Old January 16, 2006, 11:57 PM   #10
tvick66
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Thanks All!!

Thanks for the replies, the curiosity in me means I'm going to have to try depriming slowly. Yes, I wear eye protection, and probably long johns under my clothes for this operation And then they are headed for the trash, if I were to set the primers off outside the neighbors would drop bricks. My closest neighbor is a DA and they are a little nervous around loud noises.

Luckily I did not charge the case, when I felt the primer seat I could tell something wasn't right so inspected the case right away, so they are empty backwards-primed!

I really appreciate the advice!
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Old January 16, 2006, 11:58 PM   #11
Smokey Joe
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Hmmmm...

You guys raise a couple questions in my mind.

Blue Heeler--Where is this place, "away" that you throw things? How do you know that kids won't go there, play with your primers, and explode one. You can imagine the anti-gun headlines.

Lloyd Smale--It has been demonstrated that water doesn't reliably kill modern primers. Back to the same problem--What happens when someone fishes some of your stuff out?

JJB2--I keep an 18" piece of railroad rail in my basement to use as an anvil. I do not and would not use active railroad track! ANY such solid thing would do; a rock, or a concrete driveway, would do. You just need to put the primer on something so you can hit it with a hammer and kill it.

My point, guys, was and is that unwanted primers need to be deactivated before being discarded, and setting them off by hitting them (while wearing appropriate safety equipment) is the most easy, effective and reliable way of deactivating them. That's all.
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Old January 17, 2006, 12:03 AM   #12
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FWIW : I am absolutely anal about safety when it comes to reloading. I check, check, recheck, ask tons of questions when there's any doubt. Eye protection, ear protection, all that.

But even I don't worry too much about primers. They seem mean and scary, but in reality they're fairly weak. Certainly take tons of precautions doing the reverse popout. But once you reseat properly, disposing via the gun is truly safe. As I stated above, put the primed case in your gun - muzzle into a towel and pull the trigger. The sound will be somewhat equivalent of dropping a 2x4 from waist height on a concrete floor and having it land perfectly flat. A *snap*, but nothing more. If I did it in my garage, and you were standing 5' away from outside the closed door, I doubt you'd notice anything - let alone inside another house or out mowing your lawn. It's not even remotely close to the sound of a firing round.

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Old January 17, 2006, 02:52 AM   #13
T. O'Heir
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"...try depriming slowly..." I've done that. Very slowly and with minimum pressure. No fuss or bother.
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Old January 17, 2006, 09:31 AM   #14
yorec
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Another "slow deprimer" here... Works for me.

Another thing that works for me is that I save these deprimed primers for a batch of "blasting" ammo. Load and use normally - I know some will frown on it, but never had a problem. Or a malfunction due to bad primer... Any good reason not to do this?
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Old January 17, 2006, 01:50 PM   #15
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"But even I don't worry too much about primers. They seem mean and scary, but in reality they're fairly weak."

Really? Well in the interest of disspelling that myth, I'll tell of my experience with primers.

Now for the rest of the story........

I hesitate to tell this, as it was a dumb stunt on my part, but it fits right into this thread.

Early on into my reloading career, I was given a big pail of military 30-06 cases. They were all primed with an unknown primer, they had been stored in some guys garage under less that ideal conditions.

I didn't want to trust them for regular loads, my dads rifle wasn't to be used to just fire them, so I set off to deprime live primers. Not wanting to use the FL die in my rock chucker, I made a military decapper, I turned it down in a lathe from a 5/16 th allen wrench. I then used the shell holder for a base to whack the deprimer punch with a ball peen hammer.

At first I used the bench for this, after about 30, I was getting tired of leaning forward to smack the punch. I moved the set-up to my leg, and proceeded to work more comfortably. THE FIRST ONE WENT OFF! Maybe it was the first one to have an active primer in it, but it sure hurt. A hole in my jeans corresponded to a hole in my leg, not much blood but a kind of deep numb pain.

I put a band-aid on the wound, went and told dad what had happened, we decided to wait till the next morning to go to the hospital ER.

X-rays showed the primer cup had gone 1.5 inches into the muscle, with the separated anvil ½ inch behind it. The doc froze the area, retrieved the anvil without too much trouble, but had to use a fluoroscope to find the cup.

They were about to call the cops, thinking I had been shot. I tried to explain about primers and reloading, but they didn't know what I was saying. Finally one of the tech orderlies heard what was going on, HE was a reloader also, took a look at the x-ray and said "cool it" to the doc. He then had to hear the story himself, the forth time I had told it in less than an hour!

So Kayser, a primer don’t have much force? it not only goes bang but with considerable power! The quad muscle on a 22 year old leg is pretty dense. For the primer to have penetrated that far in dense muscle, it had to have plenty of power. Also considering a very loose fit in the shell holder and the leaking around the punch, it did a lot of damage!

BTW I just turned 60, so put the rookie comments away. Like I said a dumb move, but it sure gave me a pile of respect for the force contained in a primer.

That said, using a FL die or a de-capper die to slowly push out a live primer is very safe. A primer reacts to percussion, meaning it has to be hit HARD with a pointed firing pin, while the anvil is bottomed out in the primer pocket and the shell is held tightly in a chamber.
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Old January 17, 2006, 08:39 PM   #16
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'Away' is my scrap brass and lead etc. bucket. Every once in a while a mate collects the contents - he uses what he can and sells the rest as scrap.

Otherwise I would have no hesitation throwing an empty case with a turned primer into the Wheelie Bin.
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Old January 17, 2006, 09:28 PM   #17
impact
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I've knocked them out with a punch and never had a problem. Ever seat a primer in sideways? But yah! make sure you have eye protection if you use a punch. have fun and be safe

Let me add to what I said. The anvel needs to be firm against something in order for the primer to work with a blow or impact. Chances are that you could hit the primer hard and nothing will happen being the anvil in out in the open. But always make sure your eyes are protected before you hit a primer just to be on the safe side.

That being said I know a guy that lost his right hand storing primers in a baby food jar. A few hundred primers going off at one time is nasty. I was not suppose to happen but it did.
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Old January 18, 2006, 03:36 AM   #18
yorec
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One thing I know can be dangerous is those progressive loader feed tubes. One going off at one end of the tube can cause a chain reaction - tube acts like a barrel. Primer peices like shot. Bad juju.
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Old January 18, 2006, 09:57 AM   #19
TimRB
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In Hatcher's Notebook, a story is told about a young man working at an ammo factory who was carrying a *bucket* of loose primers, bouncing them as he walked. Even after the dust had settled, he was never seen again.

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Old January 18, 2006, 10:34 AM   #20
rogn
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primers

According to the story I heard they only found his boots. I can relate to the story of primers being turned into projectiles after having done something stoopid with one as a teenager and having it go thru a jacket anstick itself in a pectoral muscle. Came out easily due to the shreds of jacket clinging to it. one tug was all it took. Cant remember the cause of it, since I did alot of dangerous things then. Now a dab of penetrating oil and an overnight soak and they aare quite inert. Kerosene or any very light oil works very quickly to deactivate, why take chances, it hurts. Some of my cases have enough time in them to not want to throw them away. Some alcohol or dishwashing liquid and a good rinse and your back in business.
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Old January 18, 2006, 05:30 PM   #21
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I played with a shotgun shell primer as a dumb teen once - I cut the plastic hull off, and while the rprimer was still in the bottom of the brass, I placed it on an old cabinet top, took a hammer & nail, and BANG!! Never found the pieces; the anvil and metal cap (the part the pin hits to fire the primer) were just gone, and I had one of those blood clots that you get when you pinch your skin between in a pair of pliers on my index finger and thumb, pretty big ones at that. That's the last time I ever played with primers...
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