The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 24, 2000, 11:18 PM   #1
bigboredave
Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2000
Posts: 22
hey guys I am new to reloading I have heard that using slow burning ball powders for pistols is hard on the cylinder throats. Is this true? i don't want to damage my guns( both ruger single actions in 44 mag and 45lc) On the sixgunner website john linebaugh recommends H-110 and ww296 while paco kelly says he doesnt use them because they wear out the throats. I would think that slow burning powders should be the easiest on guns.

a couple questions: where are the throats everyone is talking about?

If H-110 does damage guns, what is a good subsitute (i know I will give up some performance)?

Thanx in advance
bigboredave is offline  
Old April 25, 2000, 02:48 AM   #2
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Fine ball powder is rough on wheel guns, particularly on .357 and .41 Magnums. They tend to flame cut the top strap between the forcing cone and cylinder. Most powders from Alliant are good alternatives. Look at 2400 and Blue Dot, a bit quicker powders, but they will save your guns. I like Herco powder for targets and plinking. Leave the hot stuff for hunting or for that special day you wish to put a really big smile on your face.

Robert

Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old April 25, 2000, 09:07 AM   #3
Hutch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2000
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,124
The throat being referred to is the area of the chamber ahead of the bullet. The forcing cone is the rear-most piece of the barrel. I've shot a bit of H110, and it is a fine magnum pistol powder. I agree that it MAY cause some frame erosion, but back in my Metallic Silhouette days, the only cartride/pistol combo that this was generally noted in was the Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Max (a stretched Mag case). Unless you're going to fire thousands and thousands of full-tilt boogie medicine in the .44, I don't think flame erosion of the frame or pitting of the forcing cone is all that much of an issue. IMHO, I wouldn't hot-rod the .45Colt to .44 mag specs. You've got a .44mag, use it when much wreckage must be applied. Load the .45 w/ midrange loads of Unique (or some such newfangled stuff as AA5 or Universal Clays) and it'll outlive your heirs. In fact, while I'm on the soapbox, I'll admit that I'm down to 2 powders for revolvers, Unique and H110. Nothing I need to do can't be done with those two. How's that for sublime confidence expressed in a tortured sentence?
Hutch is offline  
Old April 25, 2000, 12:08 PM   #4
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,513
All good advice here. Like Hutch, I don't like to hotrod my 45 Colt, but I do my .44 Mag. I am also pretty much standardized on two powders for these two cals - W296 (hard to tell this one apart from H110 in a lineup) and W231. I wouldn't worry too much about ruining your guns with H110, it would take a whole lot of shooting to make it noticeable (after cleaning), and then it is far from being ruined at that point.

[As for that tortured sentence, we just gotta work on that. How about, "Anything I need to do can be done with those two."?]
Mal H is offline  
Old April 25, 2000, 03:23 PM   #5
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,991
Hey Robert,

2400 really isn't any better on your guns than H110...

2400 is a double based powder, meaning that it is both nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. The nitroglycerine causes it to burn with a much hotter flame, which causes more erosion...

When you get right down to it, though, NONE of the slow-burning powders are really all that different in how they treat the gun steel.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 25, 2000, 09:08 PM   #6
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
This may be my ignorance, but I think that it is not just intense heat that causes the damage. It is the fine ball powder sandblasting against the metals. Alliant powders are more of a flat, round flake.


Robert
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old April 26, 2000, 11:42 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,991
When all is said and done, the "sandblasting" effect of ball powder is probably the least injurious to a gun...
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 26, 2000, 12:21 PM   #8
Hutch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2000
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,124
Mal, I think you make a fine editor. Now why couldn't I have not hit on that structure? <G>
Hutch is offline  
Old April 27, 2000, 12:00 AM   #9
Grayfox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 1998
Posts: 1,885
I can only speak in regard to the .45 Colt. Don't do it. H110 is only used for the "hot" loads. I've tried it and the muzzel flash and noise alone were enough to make me stop using it. Not to mention it shook the basepin loose in my Ruger!
With 250 to 300gr bullets, Unique works very well in this cartridge.

------------------
TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
Grayfox is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 06:43 AM   #10
Halfpint
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 1999
Location: About to be gobbled up by "The People's Republic of Firestone"!
Posts: 224
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert the41MagFan:
Fine ball powder is rough on wheel guns, particularly on .357 and .41 Magnums. They tend to flame cut the top strap between the forcing cone and cylinder. Most powders from Alliant are good alternatives. Look at 2400 and Blue Dot, a bit quicker powders, but they will save your guns. I like Herco powder for targets and plinking. Leave the hot stuff for hunting or for that special day you wish to put a really big smile on your face.

Robert
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmm... .357mags huh? I shoot a Dan Wesson .357 mag and was sort of wondering *if* the `adjustment' between the cylinder and forcing cone that I can set *might* make it a bit more tolerant? I've been staying away from H110 just because of that particular `rumor' just in case. Been using Blue Dot and *not* going for `hotrodding' my loads. (Though now and then I do occasionally have an urge to run a *few* through just for the hallibut. Kinda fun as an `attention getter' on an otherwise `quiet?' day on the range or going after the occasional prairie dog. {CHORTLE!})



------------------
Doleo ergo sum,
-HALFPINT-

Halfpint is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 08:59 AM   #11
SKR
Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 68
Well, it has been my experience that H-100 is no better, nor no worse, than any other powder.

I have been using H-110 in .44 Magnum rifle and handgun since 1962. I have notice no excessive erosion in any of my firearms...
SKR is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 12:43 PM   #12
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Read a article somewhere, think it was at Sixguns.com. But this article said that flame cutting is the main reason why Ruger dropped the Supermag. Went on to say that .357 Magnums are the most vulnerable to flame cutting. They also said that in the long term, the damage seems not to get any worse or the amount of shooting necessary would exceed one's life span.

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited May 06, 2000).]
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 11:05 PM   #13
M58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I have used H-110 since 1968 in my .41 mags, starting with a model 58 and a Ruger Blackhawk. I have not seen any more erosion on these than any other models of the same vintage using other powders.
I retired the M58 a little over a year ago and replaced it with the M657 Mountain Gun in .41 mag (really nice gun).
Although I use Unique or Herco for cowboy loads, all the full power loads are still 20-21 grains of H-110.
I think all my .41s will live long after I do.
 
Old May 8, 2000, 01:09 PM   #14
Walt Welch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 1998
Location: Alamo, CA
Posts: 424
Article in (I think) American Rifleman about 10 years ago. It was determined that it is not the gas or flame cutting the top strap, it is the powder grains. They act much like the beads in bead blasting.

Easy cure. Take a carpenter's pencil, the ones with the rectangular lead, and rub the topstrap above the bbl. cylinder gap. This will prevent top strap cutting. Works for me. Walt
Walt Welch is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08401 seconds with 9 queries