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Old November 11, 2005, 02:37 PM   #1
rtherbhuntin
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sighting in muzzleloader

what is a good distance to sight my traditions 50 cal. at with a 295 gr. powerbelt hollow point bullet.
any input will be greatly appreciated. the big problem i am having is getting a good group from 50yds to 100yds.
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Old November 11, 2005, 03:54 PM   #2
MPP1423
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are you cleaning the barrel after every shot?this is almost a must when sighting in a smoke pole.just swab out the barrel every shot and before going up or down in adjustment shoot at least 2 times to make syre its the gun and not you.
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Old November 11, 2005, 03:56 PM   #3
MPP1423
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by the way ,i start at 25 yrds.if the shot is 1 1/2 -2 " high it should be about on at 100 yrds.start close to find your shot and adjust.then you can go out to 50 then 100.this is just me.
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Old November 12, 2005, 09:44 PM   #4
Toney
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Once you get on the paper at 100 yards you will want to be 4-5" high. That should get you out to 150+ yards deer hunting
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Old November 20, 2005, 04:17 PM   #5
Dwight55
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Toney wrote: "Once you get on the paper at 100 yards you will want to be 4-5" high. That should get you out to 150+ yards deer hunting"

I'm shooting a .50 New England Firearms using 209 primers and 50/50 pellets of 777 (two per load).

I have it well sighted in for 50 yds, . . . what kind of hold over would you suggest for a 100 yd shot?

(Hope you don't mind a bunch of questions, . . . centerfire pistols, rifles, machine guns; no problem for me, . . . but I am about 72 hours new to this BP shooting)

May God bless,
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Old November 20, 2005, 07:13 PM   #6
Toney
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With a 50y zero you can probably hold dead on at 100y The main problem is those big bullets catch a lot of air and start to slow down really fast but it should still be cooking at 100

Just keep on shooting it them power belts should do good
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Old November 20, 2005, 08:20 PM   #7
ssgmac27
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I'm with MPP1423. I sight mine in at 25 yds first, then fine tune at 100yd. Cleaning out the barrel is a must, too. I didn't do that the last time I checked my zero. I had great groups for the first 4 shots, but after that they started getting farther off after each shot.
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Old November 20, 2005, 08:29 PM   #8
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Thanks, Guys, . . . appreciate the feedback, . . .

May God bless,
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Old December 1, 2005, 06:40 PM   #9
jrockhull
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sighting in muzzle loader

I sighted in my muzzle loader at 25yds,with bullet impact 1 and a half inches high of center, when I moved to 100yds, I was shooting 10 inches high of center. What would cause this problem? I was told that I should be spot on at 1oo with 1 and a half inches high at 25. I was shooting off of sandbag rests.
I was shooting 100 gains of 777 and 223 gain aeirotip belted bullets out of 50 cal. CVA Optima
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Old December 2, 2005, 02:22 AM   #10
MPP1423
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jrock,
did you swab the barrel inbetween shots?at 25 yrds 2 in high you should be about on target at 100 yrd.that is how i site mine in.
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Old December 2, 2005, 07:47 AM   #11
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MPP1423
No, I did not swab the barrel after every shot. I am new at this muzzleloader game. If I swab after every shot do I swab from the muzzle with bore cleaner or just a wet patch or do I have to remove the breach plug every time? I am shooting a CVA Optima
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Old December 2, 2005, 09:43 AM   #12
Steve499
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jrock, I just use a spit patch or two on the ramrod, followed by a dry patch, before I load the next charge. I do that on the range because there's time to do it and you want the best performance with each shot when shooting paper. I also do it when hunting except when I need to shoot at another squirrel that's there and probably won't wait on me. When you can feel the fouling as you seat a patched ball, it's time to swab the bore a little.
I'm mystified about what could be causing your rifle to shoot that high at 100 yards when it's only a little high at 25 yards. If you had a really, really highly mounted scope I could understand, but not with open sights mounted on the barrel. I would just go shoot a lot of groups to make sure it wasn't some kind of flukish thing and then adjust the sights accordingly. As we all know from our old BB gun days, you get familiar with a gun, shoot it enough and, heck, you don't need those dang sights anyhow!

Steve
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Old December 2, 2005, 04:48 PM   #13
jrockhull
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Steve 499
Thanks, I am sighting in a scope mounted on see through rings, but I did not swap after every shot. I had the same problem with sighting in my iron sights. I do think after hearing from you guys, my problem is with shooting out of a fouled barrel. I will try swabbing after every shot when I can get back to the range.
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Old December 3, 2005, 03:04 AM   #14
MPP1423
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jrock,
yea,what steve said!when sighting in you must swab inbetween shots.and always shoot twice before changing your sites to make sure it aint you.
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Old December 3, 2005, 07:17 AM   #15
Low Key
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jrock, the see through rings are neat to be able to use scope or iron sights, (I used to have a set myself), but they will give you problems if you shoot at variable unknown distances like say 75 yards for one shot and 115 for the next in a hunting situation and this may be the source of your sighting problem now.
When a bullet leaves the barrel of a rifle it travels in a arc to the target. The bullet will cross the line of sight of your sighting system (whether iron sights or scope) a few feet in front of the muzzle, it's arc carries it to a high point (at about 60% of the sight in distance) and then the bullet drops back down along it's arc. If your sights are set right, the next time it crosses line of sight is at impact on the target. The closer your sights are to the same level as the muzzle of your rifle, the easier it is to adjust them to the point of impact of the bullet and the easier to predict the drop of the bullet at longer ranges.
When you move the sights higher off the barrel, it gets harder to adjust them for more than one known distance. If you're only going to be shooting a one known distance you can get them adjusted fine, but otherwise they are hard to predict.
I fought with a set of the see through rings on a .22 rifle for a year before a more experienced shooter suggested that I try rings that sit down as close to the barrell as possible. I was nearly ready to sell the scope for being inaccurate and unpredictable, but I changed the rings out and that solved my sighting problems.
If cleaning between shots doesn't improve the situation, you might try a shorter set of rings.
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Old December 3, 2005, 09:11 AM   #16
Remington kid
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Check the end of your muzzle and make sure you didn't ding it uop a little. If you did you will never shoot straight untel you have the muzzle chamfered and you should do that anyway and also use a protector when loading.
Different powder and different loads will never act the same from one gun to another just like no two modern firearms will shoot the same bullet at the same spot.
If your useing a patch try to find the patch after the shot and see what it looks like. Are the edges torn from the rifleing? If so you need to smooth up the bore by useing a little valve grinding compound on the next two patches when you shoot. his will help remove any burs on the rifleing.
If the patch is burnt on the edges then it is to thin and the gasses are escaping around it , go to a thicker patch.
A hotter or less hotter cap can make a difference too.There are a lot more variables to tuning a muzzle loader correctly than most people realize and to do it right takes many hours on the range and a very clean bore.
Before changing anything I would check the patch and start from there by loading it with 50g of whatever powder your useing at 20-25 yards. Then up the powder by 5g at a time and see what happens cleaning the bore between every shot with a spit patch and then a dry patch. Once you are hitting the same hole every shot and 2" high then move out no more than 5 yards at a time and start over.
If as you go out or extend your distance and the the groups start getting to big then you may need to try a different powder or you need a better bench rest.
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Old December 3, 2005, 01:42 PM   #17
jrockhull
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Thanks to all,
I thank you all for your advice and I will take them all to heart. I believe that I will have better results the next time I go to the range.
Thanks Again
someone please tell me what elements make up a spit patch. Is it just a patch wet with water or a solvent soaked patch?
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Old December 3, 2005, 04:45 PM   #18
Steve499
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It's just a wet patch. What you use to make it wet don't matter a whole lot. I stick the patch in my mouth when I'm hunting. On the range I like to use rubbing alcohol but windex or any of the commercial black powder liquids ( moose milk, etc.), as well as plain old water will work.


Steve
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Old December 3, 2005, 05:59 PM   #19
jrockhull
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Steve,
Thanks for the info
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Old December 8, 2005, 09:07 AM   #20
jrockhull
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anyone know if forarm clearance in reguards to the barrel of a muzzleloader ( CVA OPtima) has any effect on accuracy
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Old December 8, 2005, 10:13 AM   #21
Steve499
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On a cartridge firing rifle, anything touching the barrel can affect accuracy. Some shoot better with the barrel not touching anything forward of the reciever and some shoot better with some upward pressure at the end of the forearm. I don't suppose a muzzle loading rifle is any different, the same physics apply, but most of them have heavier barrels which tend to minimize vibrations. I wouldn't think it would make much difference unless there was extreme pressure as from a warped stock. I'm not familiar with your rifle. If it has the barrel secured to the stock by a wedge you should be able to tell something by how much tension is on it when it is tapped out. It couldn't hurt anything to relieve wood from the barrel channel so the wood isn't touching the barrel except where it has to bear for attachment to the stock, but most muzzle loaders just aren't designed to have the barrel free floated.

A fun test you can do sometime about barrel contact. Shoot a group with a well zeroed rifle for a control. Then shoot another group while someone rests something, a screwdriver for instance, on top of the barrel. Shoot groups with the assistant applying pressure from each side. In every rifle I've done that with, I have gotten 4 distinctive groups. It will work with a .22 also. It demonstrates that barrel harmonics are affected by contact. As long as that contact is constant, though, the grouping shouldn't move around.

Steve
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Old December 8, 2005, 09:18 PM   #22
Wayner
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sighting in muzzleloader

First thing I wondered is whether the Barrel is the slow twist rifling for ball or the fast twist for the conical bullet.Gotta match the projectile to the type of rifling in the barrel.
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