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Old December 3, 2005, 10:05 AM   #26
stevelyn
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+1 on the bunny boots. They are warm and waterproof. Indispensable when getting stuck in overflow. A lot of the sprint mushers and some of the older Iditarod and Yukon Quest mushers wear them when running on the rivers. Only problem is that since they are rubber your feet won't breath so you need to change socks about twice or more a day.

For pacs I like the LaCrosse Iceman for extreme cold or when I'm going to be out for long hours. For milder temps down to about -25 F I like the Sorel Black Bear. Anything above 0 F I'll just use my Danner Ft. Lewis Go Devils. They're my duty boots anyway.

For socks I like the Swedish and Norwegian milsurp socks available from the Sportsman's Guide. They are usually a ragg wool type sock, thick, extremely warm and comfortable. Like WA said they work better with a liner sock of some type.

FirstFreedom,

A pac boot is a generic term to describe the Sorel type of boot that is usually constructed with a rubber bottom and either a leather or nylon shaft and has a separate removeable wool felt or synthetic insulating inner liner.
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Old December 3, 2005, 11:12 AM   #27
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Good lord. Irish Setters sure have changed. I have a pair that I bought when I was 16, and have resoled once. They're good heavy leather uppers, with crepe sole below. No thinsulate. No Gortex. But they have one major plus: they're size 18. Redwing is pretty good about making a small run of Manly Sized footwear every now and then.

Sigh. I note that those 4 1/2 lb monsters that First Freedom linked to only go up to size 12 1/2.
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Old December 3, 2005, 12:47 PM   #28
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You might look into a pair of Baffin Extremes with Fleetek. These things are a rubber /leather combo, and they are the only boots I've ever had that kept me comfortable in sub-zero temperatures. The Baffin Mammoth is rated to -148 deg. F.

http://www.northlandmarine.com/BaffinMensMammoth04.html
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Old December 3, 2005, 01:21 PM   #29
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One big thing that you should check is what a couple of people have said....Make sure things aren't too tight in your boots. This year I went out hunting w/ 2 pairs of socks on, one regular pair and one "warm pair" of thick socks. It wasn't any colder than 30F above and my feet were freezing. That afternoon I tried takeing off my regular socks b/c they were so contricting. My feet were as warm as they could be. It's worth a shot, if you have too much stuff on constricting yourself it's not going to help it's going to hurt more.
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Old December 3, 2005, 05:02 PM   #30
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Also, don't wear the socks wrong. I've seen many a time where hunters wear regular cotton athletic socks under wool socks. While there is some insulation to the wool on the outside, they'd do better to do it the other way around. You want the high wicking sock against the skin. Best is polypropylene inner sock under wool outer socks, but some even go polypro/wool/cotton, to pull sweat all the way out from the foot. Cotton is very absorbant, and you don't want absorbed sweat next to your skin.
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Old December 3, 2005, 05:11 PM   #31
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Old December 3, 2005, 05:18 PM   #32
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[Speaking of feeling a chill...]

Man, a day without considering W.A.'s undies is not a day poorly spent.
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Old December 3, 2005, 07:07 PM   #33
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Last week I had the privilage of talking to a gentleman who'd been in the battle of the Chosin resevoir and this same subject came up. He told me the way he had kept his feet warm in 40 below zero weather was he put on all of his wool sox one pair inside the other in his regular uninsulated boots. He said the most mportant thing was that when the inner pair froze he rotated them to the outside of the stack.

He said he layered two pairs of long johns under a pair of USMC drress slacks and two pairs of dungaree pants and did the same with all the undershirts and shirts he had in his duffle bag. By the time they had been resupplied with winter clothing all the guys who didn't have enough layers of sox or didn't have the discipline to rotate them had frozen their feet.

As for me, I'll stay in the sunny southland.
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Old December 5, 2005, 12:08 PM   #34
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Looked up my sizes

I normally wear a size 9 1/2 in regular shoes, and am wearing a size 10 in the Rockies Deer Stalkers, 1600 Thinsulate, with one pair of cotton socks, one pair of wool socks, and toe warmers, and they feel perfect, not too tight, not too loose.

The Lacrosse Ice Kings - I bought a size 11, but I wish I had bought a size 10 instead - they are a little loose, makes walking a little tougher than it should be, but not too bad...

Good luck finding warmth!
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Old December 5, 2005, 08:14 PM   #35
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I dont
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Old December 5, 2005, 10:01 PM   #36
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There is no such thing as a warm enough boot. I have a pair of lace up -140 degree Sorel boots. One of the best purchases I've made. (Although I am fond of the Baffin boots as well) The way boots are rated is a little odd... the temp rating indicates the protection given when active... sit around in the snow in -20 degree weather and those -20 degree boots will let your feet freeze.

Get the boots with removable insulation, I shouldn't have to say why. One good thing is that you can put thinner insulation in if it's a warm day.
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Old December 5, 2005, 10:03 PM   #37
springmom
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getting cold feet?

Ask yourself, FirstFreedom, if you tend to get cold feet and hands at other times. For example, if you reach into the ice cream section at the grocery store? If so, definitely make sure you're amply warmed up, maybe with foot warmers. I hate to sound like one of those awful prescription medicine commercials on TV, but an ongoing problem with cold feet and/or hands can be a result of Reynaud's syndrome and/or can be a problem if you ever become diabetic. (Reynaud's goes with my lovely little cluster of lupus/Sjogren's garbage and so I have to think warm tootsies under +50). I'd turn into a Springmom-cicle up where Wildalaska lives!

Don't let them get to sweating, but don't let them get cold and lose circulation either.

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Old December 6, 2005, 10:10 AM   #38
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I use standard Norwegian military boots. Leather, no insulation. One pair of thick wool socks.

I generally avoid sitting or standing still for long periods of time when it's cold. If I did things like ice fishing in cold weather (yes, I have been ice fishing in warm weather ), I would go and buy myself a pair of insulated "over-boot-thingies" to put my feet, boots and all, into.
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Old December 6, 2005, 10:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
Man, a day without considering W.A.'s undies is not a day poorly spent
Bwaaaahahahaha.

This is a very interesting discussion, and there are many helpful posts which I need to ponder. But at this point, let me give you this update. This last Sunday, it was low 20s here in the am (that's *plus* 20s). I had on my -135 deg-rated boots. My toes nearly froze off - my feet got cold just a few minutes after I plopped down in the dark a.m. (and that's with a leaf pile built up around the boots), and they got cold nearly 45 minutes before I started feeling it in my hands, and a good hour or so before my torso got cold - what gives? I am utterly confused. I did have on neoprene long john bottoms, so perhaps that's it - perhaps those are cutting off circulation.....
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Old December 6, 2005, 10:42 AM   #40
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Well this discussion is interesting.

Personally I have 1200 grain insulation on my hunting boots. Now I am thinking about getting boots with less insulation. Sure I was warm but I was too warm while hunting last weekend

Too warm can be a bad thing you can start to sweat and then you might freeze even more thats why I always wear just enough to keep me warm but not "hot" and I carry a extra layer or 2 in my pack just incase the weather gets worse

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Old December 6, 2005, 11:00 AM   #41
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Cold extremities often are the result of losing too much heat from your head. I wear a rabbit fur hat pulled down over the ears when I am sitting stationary and it's very cold (Ohio cold, ~0 F). That way I can get away with boots with just 400 g Thinsulate in them. They are Red Wings, underneath which I wear merino wool socks, two pairs. Try getting a warmer hat before spending time/money on boots.

I lived in northern WI for 6 years and Mpls. for 4 years so I do know cold. I have been out walking in the sunshine in -62 F indexed.
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Old December 6, 2005, 04:16 PM   #42
FrontSight
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^ True...
An Old Sailor's adage goes: "If your feet are cold, put on your hat"

I love the heat-exchange head cover - the one with a brillo pad that keeps your warmth from your breathing...the scent lock one is the best, but a little loose, so I wear a b-ball cap under it too, an if it gets real cold I'll put a balaclava under it, too...toasty
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Old December 6, 2005, 04:25 PM   #43
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Bingo

Well there you have it, I guess. I think O.A. and Scrap hit the nail on the head, so to speak. The heat must be going out through my head, making my extremities get cold first. You see, I tried wearing the ski mask I had with me - good wool one, but I took it off because it caused my breath to go up instead of out and it went under my glasses and fogged me up. So all I had on my head was a ballcap, with my coat hood on top of that. The coat hood is no slouch of a warmer, but apparently not good enough. Dang it, now what do I do - I can't take my glasses off. Maybe cut a hole in the nose portion of my ski mask or a balaclava-type unit, so that my breath can escape and not fog me up.
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Old December 6, 2005, 04:35 PM   #44
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Dang it, now what do I do - I can't take my glasses off. Maybe cut a hole in the nose portion of my ski mask or a balaclava-type unit, so that my breath can escape and not fog me up.
Try putting one of those disposable sportsman's hot paks under your hat. Sorry, can't remember the brand name, but they're chemical packs that you open and when exposed to air get very warm for several hours. Wally World has 'em for about a buck apiece. I tried this some years ago out of desperation and found it works very well.
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Old December 6, 2005, 04:44 PM   #45
FrontSight
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Quote:
but I took it off because it caused my breath to go up instead of out and it went under my glasses and fogged me up.
Oh my God, tell me about it - I wear contact lenses, and they get dry as hell from my breathe going up into my eyes with almost anything I wear over my face, including the heat exchange thing mentioned above, but the polypropolyne balaclava is ok b/c air goes straight out. And forget about using binoculars with anything, you have to hold yer breathe or pull the mask down, or it's fogged up in 0.3 seconds. VERY frustrating...maybe that's the next BIG millionaire invention - something that keeps your breathe away, but is comfortable, too. Forget anti fog solutions, I'm a diver and even those eventually fog up, you need to physically keep the breath away - I'm gonna use a snorkel next time I go out, ha!
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