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Old September 30, 2005, 12:18 AM   #26
Garand Illusion
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In terms of carrying at the airport ...

I've been told that it's OK to carry in the non secure parts of the airport. There are signs up at the doors on DIA that say something to the effect that it's against Federal Law to bring a loaded weapon in to an airport, but it also says something about "unauthorized weapons" (should have written down the verbage). I think that with a CCL you're OK, but IANAL.

I haven't paid a lot of attention as I'm normally headed for an airplane so I can't have a loaded weapon anyway.
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Old September 30, 2005, 01:39 AM   #27
Dead-Nuts-Zero
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I owned a small retail store in a small quiet mall at one time. I had a new girl working and she was not the brightest bulb in the box but a good worker. I had a LE buddy go into the store and act like he was just looking around. He pocketed a few items and took them to his car. Then went back again and made a bigger scene and took more items. She told him to have a "nice day" when he left..both times within 30 minutes! I could have lost the whole store! He brought everything back in and asked if he could return it. She did ask for a reciept but thats about all she did. I then came in and we unloaded everything on the counter and told her what we did. She was upset that we would do such a thing. She was more surprised when I gave her walking papers. Anyway, we did this again with all the help. He wore his gun in plain sight at times and no one said a thing about it or acted like they saw it. Some employees really did keep watch for shoplifters, but after this... they really watched alot more. It was worth doing this just to train them on shoplifting. Young part time help, they worked hard but not much in the observation department. If they had noticed the gun, they would have freaked out. No one saw it.
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Old September 30, 2005, 10:14 AM   #28
CobrayCommando
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I think its more that people are conciously and subconciously afraid of confrontations, when you look at those hidden camera shows, you can act ridiculous and insane and everybody around is afraid to say anything.

Also, people will believe the stupidest things when someone in a biohazard suit or government badge tells them its true.
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Old September 30, 2005, 10:42 AM   #29
leadcounsel
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Two thoughts:

I've heard the story before, as it related to my Criminal Law course, about the fact that eye witnesses, while so heavily relied upon, often have conflicting versions of the same account. While each truthfully believes what he saw, their stories are often dramatically different.

As it relates to concealed carry and the "exercise" in the classroom of having two men come in and argue with a knife, I think there is another lesson to be learned. Things aren't always as they may appear and as CCW holders, we need to evaluate the situation if and before we decide that intervention is necessary.

Another thought that I was just reminded of, relating to observation: Shortly after 9/11 I needed to pick up a girlfriend at the airport. This was in the heighted security checkpoint a mile from the airport days, where an inspection of every car was necessary. I had recently been at the gun range and my .357 and boxes of shells were in the trunk, concealed only by a biodegradable plastic grocery sack. I forgot about it until I was literally being searched. The officer was not very observant because he looked in my trunk and told me to carry on. I was glad that I wasn't harassed about it, but at the same time NOT reassured about the level of alertness of the guards.

After that, and also knowing a TSA worker, much of the 'security' at airports are feel good measures and nothing more.
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Old September 30, 2005, 12:35 PM   #30
Garand Illusion
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A quick car search is really just for bombs, though if they've been told to I'm sure they would react to a gun if they found it.

I mean ... if you allow someone in with a car, with all the nooks and crannys and things that could be easily disassembled and hold a small pistol, there's no way you're really screening for weapons. I mean, you've have to strip a car apart piece by piece and spend hours going over it to get even 50% comfortable there was no gun hidden within. And then you'd have to run the driver through a metal detector right there.

From my experience most security is always to catch either really stupid BG's or honest citizens who didn't understand/forgot about something. i.e. they always make a big deal out of searching my car before I go on a military base, but it's not like they pull off the door panels or lift the rug in the trunk or check the spare tire space etc. Getting a gun past them would be no problem.

Or I could just bust in the head of the guy doing the search with a tire iron (they are always private security these days) and take his gun. Though of course this would reveal my intentions to the MP's patrolling within.
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Old September 30, 2005, 02:54 PM   #31
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I can take this up a notch. As a Federal Agent, I had cause to walk down a busy street in the main section of the city, with a handgun IN MY HAND. I was in a suit (just like everyone else), had my hand at my side (just like most folks pre-cell phones), walked casually but 'with purpose' (just like everyone else), and no one noticed!

(We did get our guy that day.)
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Old November 1, 2005, 01:25 PM   #32
Dead-Nuts-Zero
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I know this is an old thread, but something I did just last week made me think of the CCW Printing issue.

I had to wear a heart monitor for 24 hours for some test my doctor wanted. I went into the hospital where they shaved my chest and then stuck little patches of electrodes and wires to my chest area. I had a monitor (electrical unit about the size of a CD case/jacket but about 4 times as thick. OK, it was about 4" x 5" and about 1 1/2" thick. This was the monitor and where all the wires came from. It records my beats and thumps. The monitor fits into a holster much like an Uncle Mikes with an adjustible belt and I wore it around my waist. The holster holds a manual and log to record any heart related events, making it very bulky item to wear.

It kept sliding down as I walked around because it was a bit heavy. So I tried wearing it over my shoulder and crossed to my opposite side waist area but it was more up toward my arm pit and to the front of me. I looked in the mirror and it stuck out like a holstered weapon as I wore it under a thin pullover sweater.

I was walking into several stores, a fast food joint, business offices and about everywhere else within the 24 hrs. NO ONE gave me a second look. I even tried showing it off a bit to make sure people saw it. That was just to see if I got any reactions....NONE, not one curious look from anyone.
I didn't try the bank but I bet I could have. I guess most people don't think about guns unless they see you pointing it at them.
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Old November 1, 2005, 10:24 PM   #33
USP45usp
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If you really wish to "dare", get into the peoples private zones (up close and personal), they don't see you unless you touch and not always then. And when you do, it's to call into suspect your heritage.

Most people are oblivious of what is going on around them. They are either on their cells, or really looking over a price, or deciding on what grease infested wrap thing they wish to buy for lunch.

I took a bag into a store (a big one, won't tell you which) and filled it up, including fresh crab legs and went to the line. It was long so I ventured over to the video section and looked at the covers and then walked out . I wasn't thinking, I usually pay for my stuff and than hit the video section (separate register) and then go.

I was halfway home before I realized that I didn't pay for my stuff (around $30 worth). I went back, no store security on my butt, nothing. I walked up to the register, and with a look on my face explained that I had accidentally walked out without paying and I was here to pay now.

Cashier didn't even blink an eye, rang me up and I paid and left.

No one sees things any longer, everyone is in their own worlds.

Wayne
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