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Old October 13, 2005, 12:18 AM   #1
vicvic
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lets just say.......

if you were in the unlikely situation of protecting yourself against two legged creatures and all you had was a black powder rifle/revolver what would it be? i know they are outdated and under powered and im not looking to use one for self defense. i just thought it would make for a some what interesting thread.
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Old October 13, 2005, 08:24 AM   #2
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I would definately pick a pistol.

And I would hardly call a BP .44 cal Remington or Colt underpowered. They are almost as powerful as a modern .44 Magnum, and that round ball will leave a much bigger exit hole!

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Old October 13, 2005, 12:24 PM   #3
vicvic
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i stand corrected. i was under the impression that they were under powered. i am just getting into black powder so im a little in the dark. im diggin the ruger old army in the 5 1/2 in barrel even though it is a more modern design.
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Old October 14, 2005, 05:26 PM   #4
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Im likeing that 5.5" ruger old army myself. So much so that Im getting one for christmas. (thanx santa) . I own currently (just ) 3 .357 magnum da. ruger revo's Id prefer to have over a black powder gun for defense, however the old army would be better than nothing. It wouldnt be to much fun for the bad guy being on the recieving end of six black powder charges. . I think the shooting and reloading process of the cap and ball revolver look like a very enjoyable shooting scene. cleanup looks a little pain staking but I think it would be worth it.

Last edited by Pezo; October 14, 2005 at 06:32 PM.
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Old October 14, 2005, 06:11 PM   #5
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This is the only one I have much experience with. It had a definate accuracy preference for the charges shown. While the chambers would hold more powder, accuracy began to deteriorate when I tried to take advantage of it. It had the unusual distinction of shooting the optimally charged bullets as accurately as round balls. My example is also very reliable with no function hang-ups from spent caps or any other causes.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&d=1128865923
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Old October 14, 2005, 06:19 PM   #6
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these arnt mine obviously. but I've found this pic on the web and it gets me eager for christmas.
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Old October 15, 2005, 06:58 AM   #7
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I have and would use my 1858 Remington 44, (the Ruger old army was primarily based on the design of the 1858). With the 8 inch barrel and 30 grains of 777 it packs a good smack on the target.

I read some ballistics data in an older thread that stated with 37 grains of fffg black powder, the 1858 provided a velocity of over 1000fps and 326 ft/lb of energy. I compared that ballistics data to some figures in my old shooters bible and found that to be pretty equivalent to a .40 s&w.

It's not quite up to the 44 magnum, but this type of firearm did the job on a number of people 140 years ago, for a single opponent at range of less than 25 yrds I'd trust it to get the job done in a pinch.
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Old October 15, 2005, 07:49 AM   #8
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Here's a picture



Hope this works, 1st time trying to post a pic.

Edit: nope couldn't get it to go, moderator would you please remove this reply?
Thanks
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Old October 15, 2005, 10:30 AM   #9
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I agree on the Armies-- Ruger Old or Remington New. Depending on the circumstances, I might also consider a large-bore double-barrel shotgun. As with the Ruger or the Remington revolver, a muzzle-loading shotgun is at least as effective as the modern versions. Except for reloading speed, of course.
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Old October 15, 2005, 06:25 PM   #10
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You didn't specify muzzle loading, so I'll cheat and say a lever in 45-70 loaded with the original BP rounds.
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Old October 15, 2005, 09:44 PM   #11
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Hafoc, you may be onto something...

A Black Powder double barrel muzzle loading shotgun is not a "firearm" so you could get it in a barrel length that is much more useful, say 10 to 14-inches, that has serious possibilities...

Otherwise, 3rd model dragoon, 1860 army or a LeMat all have their good points. Although if it were for real, I would have to go with a stainless Ruger Old Army with a 7-1/2" barrel - that way it would make a good club after it ran out of charges.
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Old October 17, 2005, 08:04 AM   #12
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If I had to pick a single black powder arm for self defense it would have to be the best combat cap and ball revolver ever produced, the LeMat. While it saw limited production during the War Between the States it was a favorite of all who could get their hands on one. It had a 9 round cylinder, so a higher capacity than other revolvers at the time, and a short shotgun barrel underneath the pistol barrel that could fire a load of buckshot . This gave you 10 rounds total, and at close range the buckshot blast would certainly do some damage.
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Old October 17, 2005, 06:24 PM   #13
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My only gripes against the LeMat would be, first, it's pretty big, and second, I don't know if I'd trust any reproduction until I'd had a gunsmith look at it. I suppose that's true for any firearm to some extent, but I've had some serious problems with repros! Other than that, one heck of a weapon.

Of course, talking about how big the LeMat is, the Ruger Old Army, Remington New Army, or a shotgun are none of them exactly pocket-sized. They had many powerful weapons in the pre-metallic-cartridge days, but they surely lacked powerful pocket-sized repeaters.

So here's one for you. It's, say, 1860. What are your choices for pocket carry? You could have a Deringer or derringer, or maybe a pair of them, muzzle loaders able to put profound holes in anything, at short range-- but only one hole per pistol. Or you might go for a Colt .31 pocket revolver. Maybe one of the newfangled S&W .22 rimfires, if they were on the market yet. Or do you just plan on wearing a loose coat, and hiding a full-sized revolver in your belt or in a shoulder holster? What would you do? I don't even know what the average man or above-average pistolero did for concealed firepower back then. I'd kind of like to know.
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Old October 18, 2005, 06:31 PM   #14
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I think the choices of what concealed or semi concealable firearms the gentlemen (or ladies )of 1860 carried were often accompanied by a large knife or dagger.
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Old October 19, 2005, 04:43 PM   #15
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.....These ( .44 cal. 1860 Colt) were quite popular as were cut down .36 cal.= 1851,1861 & 1862 Colts in both percussion & cartridge conversions......The percussion w/ roundball was the more effective stopper.....
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Old October 29, 2005, 05:29 PM   #16
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Like any other type of gun, whatever you have!
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Old November 1, 2005, 09:57 AM   #17
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LeMat or 1858 Remington.

'Imitation is the highest form of flattery.' Thanks 'capnball'!
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Old November 1, 2005, 12:42 PM   #18
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Stuff 60 gr of FFFG in a Walker and see if it's underpowered !

I haven't had the nerve to try it yet. 45gr is my limit for now.....
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Old November 1, 2005, 01:30 PM   #19
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Stuff 60 gr of FFFG in a Walker and see if it's underpowered !
If you fired that at a crook in the middle of the night and he seen the fire coming out of that thing and the ringing in his ears he would die of frieght! Don't worry about hitting him
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Old November 1, 2005, 02:07 PM   #20
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If you were close enough you might set the BG on fire!
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