The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 10, 2005, 03:26 PM   #26
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
To me, its funny reading about someone taking a gun to the shower, or on dates, but I know it serious to that person so I'm trying to be more understanding.
PythonGuy ~

Good post. Let me try to find some common ground.

I know what you mean about some posts being funny. You're amused by folks who carry everywhere. I'm bemused when I see threads with titles like, "Do you carry to a friend's house?" "Do you carry at home?" "Do you carry to work?" "Do you carry at church?" etc ad infinitum.

The reason those threads amuse me is because, well, I carry. And I go places and do things. I don't carry "to a friend's house," or "to church" or "at home" -- I simply carry, wherever I might be. My default setting is to carry and if I'm not carrying it is because I made a deliberate decision not to do so right then. The reason I carry is never because I think whatever I'm doing is particularly dangerous; if I think something is particularly dangerous, I simply don't do it (or at least I find a way to do it more safely -- such as during the day instead of at night, or with a friend instead of alone). So all the angst about whether carry is appropriate in a particular venue just leaves me bemused.

A lot of people do the exact opposite. They go places and do things, but their default setting is to leave the gun locked up at home. If they carry at all, it's because they made a conscious decision to carry that day -- generally because they thought they were doing something particularly dangerous. I don't do it that way simply because my crystal ball has never been very good and I've noticed that bad things generally happen to me when I'm not expecting it. If other folks have noticed that bad things happen to them only when they are expecting it and prepared for it, who am I to argue? It's their lives.

I just wish they could refrain from insulting me for my choices, in the same way I refrain from insulting them for their choices.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 03:31 PM   #27
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
Just because someone posted about statistics, why did a bunch of people jump off into believing that we all carry simply because we read a statistic somewhere about how likely we are to get mugged or home-invaded?

I carry because I recognize potential.

I do what I can to minimize my risk, but since I realize it cannot be 100% eliminated, I carry to be prepared if my effort at avoidance of trouble is insufficient to keep me out of it. And of course, there is always the potential for trouble to swim upstream to me.

Some here seem to have started with a false premise, that we carry strictly because we are locked on, mentally, to the statistics we've read. That's incorrect, right from the get-go. Who are you (any of you) to say that anyone else here has not done actual considering, before deciding to carry a gun -- even if it's in the bathroom?


-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 03:36 PM   #28
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
Good post, Pax.

Taking it a step further,
you mention that you avoid situations where you feel that it would be dangerous to venture forth. This is the discretion of the wise gun owner.

You contrast with people whose default mode is to NOT carry, and that sometimes they strap on because they're going to where they think it's dangerous and having the gun may become necessary.

They're in the wrong right there: the first thing one should do if one finds oneself thinking that they're walking into a shooting situation is to walk right back out! Don't even go!

So the guy who doesn't usually carry, but does carry when he feels he's heading into danger is using his instincts to sense danger and then making the counterintuitive decision to proceed ...

and he's doing what we all acknowledge is wrong, i.e. he's letting his gun make him feel invincible.

But he'll criticize us because we carry all the time.


-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 03:39 PM   #29
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,178
Quote:
Just because someone posted about statistics, why did a bunch of people jump off into believing that we all carry simply because we read a statistic somewhere about how likely we are to get mugged or home-invaded?
i'm more inclined to believe the Brady-ites reason for my carrying: compensating for my inadequacy as a human being.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 03:40 PM   #30
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
As a human being, I am woefully inadequate to deal bare-handed with four guys armed with bats and knives,
so I guess the Brady-ites are right.


-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 03:47 PM   #31
sm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2002
Posts: 1,810
pax,
I agree.

What you do - how raised

I have always carried on person and/or always had a firearm "handy". This all before .state "said" there was mininum age, or even made availble pieces of paper that said you could. I stopped an immediate threat before I was a teenager.

Perhaps with later years, folks being born after a certain decade, Media, Politics or whatever - these inalienable rights - like carrying all the time were not part / not "allowed" in some jurisdictions.

Only after reaching "legal ages" and getting "permission papers" as "dictated" by .state is the reason we have the Awareness, or Taking of Personal Responsiblity by folks...something many folks naturally grew up doing.

Sometimes it takes hitting bottom, being a victim, or knowing a victim. Perhaps the .gov "failed" to come to rescue fast enough. Reality hits, Awareness kicks in , and slapping of foreheads..."oh my goodness!"

Brainwash the masses - .gov is gonna take care of them, that the Boogey Man is never gonna hurt you, and if for some strange reason the Boogey Man does show up, use 911 and depend on .gov to save you.
__________________
Use Enough Gun
TFL Alumni
sm is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 04:54 PM   #32
Sulaco2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,239
Humm, me thinks that to the each person violently attacked and or killed the "stats" are 100%.
Sulaco2 is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 05:42 PM   #33
sendec
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2005
Posts: 517
I'd like a straight cite for those figures as they sound more like the rate for property crime, not violent crime, which is at its lowest point since the early 70's. Violence is still a young person's sport, and will further decline as the population gets collectively older. It is also far more likely that you will be victimized by someone you know, versus as stranger.

Carrying a gun doesnt contribute to safety. Leading a safe lifestyle does, and that may include carrying a gun. Believe it or not, a person can be objectively and subjectively safe without a gun. it just doesnt fit in our collective millieu to believe that. To an extent we feed off of violence, as it serves to rationalize our love of guns. Zombie attacks, anyone?
sendec is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 05:46 PM   #34
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
Quote:
Believe it or not, a person can be objectively and subjectively safe without a gun
Depenmds on what world one lives in I reckon

WildmyworldissafehowboutyoursAlaska
Wildalaska is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 06:12 PM   #35
PythonGuy
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 456
Pax, that was perfectly put and if all the posts read like that I'm sure no one would even blink at gun ownership. I guess the point I'd like to make is, the person should be wearing the gun, not the gun wearing a person. We should all be such a good example of responsible gun ownership and use as your post shows you are.
PythonGuy is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 06:46 PM   #36
gddyup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2005
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 219
Pax - Right on guy. Keep up the good work!

But, you gotta toss out that crystal ball... they stink!

You need one of these....

__________________
Firefighter/EMT - Currently teamed on Engine 1... I always get to play with my Knob!


"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement" - Unknown.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein
gddyup is offline  
Old October 11, 2005, 06:23 AM   #37
Derius_T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: South West OHIO (boondocks)
Posts: 1,337
Pax, +1 to post #15. Well said.

And gddyup wrote:

Quote:
Some don't feel safe unless they are carrying a full-size .45 IWB, a .45 compact on the ankle, a .32 NAA Guardian pocket, a 6" bowie small-of-back, while walking with a 2oz can of Fox OC in hand for getting the mail.
WHAT MAN!? YOU WATCHIN ME CHECK MY MAIL!?
Derius_T is offline  
Old October 11, 2005, 06:41 AM   #38
jcoiii
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 556
Just remember

"It's not paranoia if it happens"



(Of course, two month ago some were called paranoid for having thought out a bug out plan in case of natural disaster)
__________________
Truth knows no political correctness.

I do not aim with my hand.......
jcoiii is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09880 seconds with 9 queries