The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 7, 2005, 12:46 PM   #1
john in jax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2005
Posts: 1,099
see-thru scope mounts - never again

I am not a great shot, but I am a lot better than I thought I was.

Up until this year all my scoped rifles had see-thru scope mounts, you know, just in case one walks out right at your feet. Well at the range last week I discovered something - - they destroy any chance I have at a decent group.

At 100 yards:
Ruger Mini-30 Ranch with stock rings and a 3x9 yielded 1" groups.
Ruger M77 MKII with stock rings a 3x9 yielded 1/2" groups.
Remington 7400 with (high) see-thru mounts and a 3x9 yielded 4" groups.

A guy at the range said it was all me! And he proved it to me. He had a fancy vice/strap rest that you could immobilize your gun in. When straped in and clamped down the 7400 yielded just under a 3/4" group.

Here is what he told me and I can't find any flaws in his reasoning. A low mounted scope allows you to rest your CHEEK on the stock which keeps your head/eye in basically the same position every shot. A high mounted scope (i.e. see-thru mounts) means you are resting your JAW on the stock and it is much easier for you to tilt your head just a fraction of an inch just slightly changing your perspective BUT seriously affecting the P.O.I.

I tested his theory with one of those laser bore sighters and with those high mounts just tilting my head what seemed like a 1/16" made a big difference in where the red dot was. The rifle was pretty well sandbagged so I am almost certain it was tiny/miniscule amount my head was moving that was making the red dot dance.
john in jax is offline  
Old October 7, 2005, 12:53 PM   #2
TheOpticZone
Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Posts: 21
Another thing that happens with the see-thru mounts, is they will torque a little each time you shot, changing your point of impact ever so slightly. But it changes drastically the farther out you are shooting. I also agree that lifting your head off the stock with the use of high rings, decreases your accuracy also. That is why I recommend getting as low as rings that you are able to use with your scope. Plus, that is why I also recommend using a 40mm scope instead of a 50mm. But this is just my opinion and others will think differently.
__________________
Jon Jackoviak
The Optic Zone
www.theopticzone.com
info@theopticzone.com
TheOpticZone is offline  
Old October 7, 2005, 01:14 PM   #3
Trip20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: WI
Posts: 2,181
Before I decide on what size mounts to purchase, I take my scope and stick it to a piece of modeling clay. Then, I put my cheek on the stock where I feel the most comfortable in my shooting position.

I then place the scope (with glob of clay) on the receiver and adjust as necessary until it is sitting at the best height for my shooting position. This helps me decide what size mounts to purchase. It makes your rifle/scope/mount comination fit you, rather than you adjusting to fit the combination.

As a side note, I have see-thru rings on my 10/22 (didn't need a rail as Weaver makes 10/22 rings which screw directly to receiver). But I also have a very high cheek rest on the target stock, and needed the extra height. With this little recoil, I have had no problems with the see-thru rings. My POI stays the same, and I haven't had to re-sight in the 10/22 since I got it set up at the range earlier in spring of 2005.
Trip20 is offline  
Old October 7, 2005, 01:31 PM   #4
TheOpticZone
Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Posts: 21
Trip, I agree with smaller caliber guns it is not a problem. I should have specified on larger caliber rifles.
__________________
Jon Jackoviak
The Optic Zone
www.theopticzone.com
info@theopticzone.com
TheOpticZone is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 07:52 AM   #5
john in jax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2005
Posts: 1,099
Thanks for the modeling clay tip, I think I'll be trying that in the future.
john in jax is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 08:17 AM   #6
Bowtier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 124
Hmmm

Guess I'm just lucky I have see through's on my Marlin 336c .35 rem. & I usually hold about 1" groups @ 100. Also I have shot 2 deer running like wildfire with my open sights & about 8-9 with my scope. I sight my scope in @ 100yds. & my open sights @ 50yds. You all make good points & I see where you're coming from, maybe I'm just lucky. Also I've been using this rifle setup like this since I was 12 so perhapse I'm just accustomed to how it shoots. Either way I'm not complaining . Although I am switching to a 7mm without open sights this year just for a change. Call me crazy.
Bowtier is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 12:50 PM   #7
H&H,hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 504
99% of all scopes I see on modern sporting rifles are mounted to high. A scope should be mounted as low as is possible with most common sporting rifle due to their less than good and comprimised stock designs.

When you mount your rifle, do so with your eyes closed mount it up and give yourself a solid cheek weld to the stock. Open your eyes if you have to adjust your head even a little bit to see a full field of vision through your scope then you've got a mounting problem.

Cheek weld is a crucial part of of rifle hold and subsequent accuracy. Having to lift your head to see through the scope destroys a crucial part of your ability to steady your rifle. See through rings are a stupid idea and a tourist gimmick at best and just plain stupid at worst.

There is no earthly reason why anybody would ever have to use these ridiculous devices if they had a good low power variable that was mounted correctly and always carried the rifle with the scope turned all the way down like you should be doing in the first place.

Greg
__________________
Velocity is thrilling, But diameter does the real killing.
H&H,hunter is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 01:19 PM   #8
Rich Lucibella
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,167
What H&H said....word for word and concept for concept.
Mount Low; Power Low; Check your scope as you would a shotgun's fit....eyes closed.
Rich
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Rich Lucibella is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 02:06 PM   #9
Charles S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2002
Location: North East Texas
Posts: 930
Quote:
I have see through's on my Marlin 336c .35 rem. & I usually hold about 1" groups @ 100. Also I have shot 2 deer running like wildfire with my open sights & about 8-9 with my scope.
I do believe that you are the exception.

Quote:
Mount Low; Power Low; Check your scope as you would a shotgun's fit....eyes closed.
That works well for me.

Charles
__________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Charles S is offline  
Old October 10, 2005, 06:19 PM   #10
john in jax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2005
Posts: 1,099
Bowtier I agree completely - - It's all me me me.
john in jax is offline  
Old October 11, 2005, 06:34 AM   #11
Bowtier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 124
Bowtier is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08056 seconds with 9 queries