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Old October 2, 2005, 12:54 AM   #1
spacemanspiff
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Tales of the Ninja: Brandishing of a weapon?

if someone brandishes at you, or you see them brandish at someone else, what do you do?

last week i was going to the store, at a stop light on a one-way street, blocked in by traffic. i'm in the 2nd lane from the left, and along the furthest left lane is a young guy trying to get the attention of the driver on my left. she is fixated directly in front of her, not looking at this young dude at all. i see him pull his shirt up, and she still doesnt bat an eye.
her head is in the way so i cant see what hes showing her. he gives up, flashes a thumbs up at her, and walks away. i didnt think much of it at the time, though i did mull over what i might have done if i did see a weapon tucked in his pants. couldnt come up with any ideas that comforted me so i forgot about it.

so i'm reading in a local paper today selections from the police blotter. and apparently what i couldnt see was that the young dude did indeed brandish. someone else called the police to report it apparently (hey now that i have a cell phone i can be that guy calling in these kinds of things!).

what other options does a person have to calling 911? do you draw down on the person? technically, brandishing is the "Threat of assault with a deadly weapon".

do you consider brandishing as much of a threat as having the gun pointed at you?


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Old October 2, 2005, 07:21 AM   #2
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In a weapon "flashing" scenario, or brandishing scenarios where the person does not seem clearly intent on using the weapon soon, is there imminent danger of death or great bodily harm? I would argue not. In which case, no other recourse besides calling 911 would be legal in most states, imo. We are not the police, let the police handle that stuff.

In all cases, call 911. If you're uneasy that it may escalate, try to monitor the situation safely until police arrive. Don't interfere, don't threaten, don't try to take on a police-like role. There is plenty of time to pull your own weapon should need arise. But if you do, imminent danger of death or great bodily harm better have arisen, or you're just another brandisher. It's also not that great to be one of two people with weapons out when police arrive.

Again, just imo and ianal.
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Old October 2, 2005, 07:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
last week i was going to the store, at a stop light on a one-way street, blocked in by traffic. i'm in the 2nd lane from the left,
When did Spiffy get a car?

stay safe.

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Old October 2, 2005, 07:44 AM   #4
Billy Sparks
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Spiffy with the situations you run up on have you ever considered asking the PD for a walkie? Just kidding.

Now to your question. I think brandishing or flashing a weapon is a threat but would I draw my weapon if sitting my my pickup? No, I would call 911 report it and ease out of the area, especially if I am on foot. Call me a coward if you want to but I am not a LEO and don't play one on TV.
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Old October 2, 2005, 11:05 AM   #5
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When did Spiffy get a car?
Not just a car....a FREE CAR...the best kind...and in nice shape too!

its already been Spiffed out, with the Surefire and Wild west guns decals and the bumper stickers that say "Honk and You'll Eat Lead" and "I have PMS and a GUN"

The interior is filled with ammo cans, targets, cleaning jags, Burger King wrappers, back isssues of Soldier of Fortune and all the other accoutraments of the armed bachelor.

Spiff calls his rig "the War wagon", I call it a NAV (Native Assault vehicle)

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Old October 2, 2005, 12:35 PM   #6
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The woman's intent to ignore the guy probably was the biggest tip that this was brandishing... er "attempted" brandishing?

But what if she had looked at him and flipped him off, shouted some profanities, and sped away?

I'd have figured it was just another gun guy finally showing his wife his latest behind her back purchase. Always tell 'em...
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Old October 2, 2005, 03:19 PM   #7
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Ok, I even went out and sat in my LARGE pickup truck and tried to see how I could possibly position myself inside the vehicle (without doing the third world squat on the seat) in order to pull my shirt up and show anyone a pistol in my waistband. I couldn't get my waist level with the window sill without standing in the seat.

Maybe she had a "Show me yout T*ts" bumper sticker on her rear bumper?

Edited: Just tried it in all 3 BMWs. Less headroom and tighter knee areas. I think the guy was doing something other than trying to show her a gun. If I wanted to show someone I was carrying, I'd pull the pistol out and show it to them. Thumbs up on drive away also seems odd. I'm guessing he wanted to show her a tatoo or he just has really odd ways to try to pick up chicks.
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Old October 2, 2005, 07:16 PM   #8
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I personally like the "Honk if you've never seen an Uzi fired from a moving vehicle" bumper sticker...
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Old October 2, 2005, 09:58 PM   #9
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Intentionally pulling up your concealment garment to show a gun doesn't seem like much of a threat unless they pull it out or try to make you think they're going to. I'd probably turn the person in if I saw it happen but I wouldn't draw on them unless things escalated.
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Old October 2, 2005, 09:59 PM   #10
spacemanspiff
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Ok, I even went out and sat in my LARGE pickup truck and tried to see how I could possibly position myself inside the vehicle (without doing the third world squat on the seat) in order to pull my shirt up and show anyone a pistol in my waistband
oops i probably didnt explain it clearly. my fault, i was home schooled.

the dude was not in a vehicle, he was standing on the sidewalk.

i'm still trying to find someone who can paint my van in those chameleon paints, but with mountain camo and urban camo as the colors it switches from/to.
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Old October 3, 2005, 06:39 AM   #11
Billy Sparks
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Not only did you buy a vehicle but it is a van? Please tell me you aren't driving a mini-van. That would just ruin my image of you.
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Old October 3, 2005, 07:52 AM   #12
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Mini-van

If someone gave me a mini-van when I had no car, damn right I'd drive it with pride! I'd just make some minor personality adjustments to the vehicle, which Spiff surely has done. My first car was a '76 green Chevy Nova, which was probably cool in the seventies but was almost dead when I got it in 1987. Still, I added my style and drove it with pride right until the day it died.

As for the brandishing, I don't think any intent can be proven just by showing off the gun wtill in the belt/holster. It seems like he was 'showing off', IMO, at least judging by the reaction of the woman.

However, I have also had someone pull up their shirt to show me a weapon while I was pursuing a companion of theirs for a security job I had. I was about 25 feet from the person, I was unarmed (by company policy), and it was in a parking lot, so there was plenty of cover. He never pulled the weapon, as I stopped pursuit, backed off, and called LE. I went home that day and thought about what I would do if I had been armed, and decided the best course of action would have been the one I'd taken. Get distance and take down the information from the scene to give LE. The suspects never got caught, probably because it was in the city and there are more pressing matters to handle.

So, as a long way to answer an easy question, I would back away and call LE for a brandishing.
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Old October 3, 2005, 11:15 AM   #13
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Mini van? Is there a red soccer ball on the back flank? Big Chief Soccermobile?

Leaving is always the best option. Yes, even if you have to violate a traffic ordinance.

If the weapon is not pointed my way, I may not have to shoot. So, I leave.

Could be Intimidation, could be assault with dead weapon. Don't know, I'll let the prosecutor sort it out, as I will be gone. *beep, beep*
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Old October 3, 2005, 01:36 PM   #14
spacemanspiff
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define 'buy a vehicle'. if you mean that i tried to pay the guy but he flatly refused then yes i did buy a vehicle.

it was from my boss, and according to him, i've earned it by my taking care of his dog when he has to leave town on business or vacation. i've had the van for 4 months now and i'm still trying to get that dogs hair out of it.


okay, ready for the twist to this scenario?

the dude who brandished was carrying a BB gun.
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Old October 3, 2005, 01:43 PM   #15
skidmark
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1 - But it could put your eye out!

2 - Why are you removing insulation?

stay safe.

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Old October 3, 2005, 02:47 PM   #16
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it was from my boss, and according to him, i've earned it by my taking care of his dog when he has to leave town on business or vacation.
He likes the dog, I guess.
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Old October 3, 2005, 04:54 PM   #17
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Heheheh.

He "brandished" his "weapon" at the woman.

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Old October 3, 2005, 08:45 PM   #18
Jack Malloy
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The whole purpose of self defense is to AVOID danger. This means not getting into a face to face confrontation with some slimy street punk unless you cannot avoid it.
I have had this happen before (in the mall in Williamson years ago) and the thing to do is just go someplace, call the police and let them deal with Mr Flashy.
In a worse case scenario, if you were to challenge an idiot like Mr Flashy, you might have to shoot it out. That is to be avoided for two reasons.
• No matter how good you are, you might catch a round. Remember even great gunfighters of the old west like Wild Bill and Wes Hardin avoided shooting it out with other pros.
• Do you really want to go through all the crap a shooting usually entails such as a coronoers inquest, police investigations, hiring an attorney and sweating about some anti-gun politician and lawyers deciding to make your life hell?

Go read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" and pay close attention to where he says to choose your battles when you know you can win.
Sun Tzu probably would have waited till the thug turned his back and shoot him between the ears.....
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Old October 4, 2005, 01:25 PM   #19
wayneinFL
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I don't see why it matters that much whether it was a bb gun or not. If you're threatening people with a bb gun, you're just a little dumber than the guy who threatens people with a real gun. It's good in a way. At least he won't hurt anybody when the cops shoot him, thinking it's real.

Did you ever find out why he was brandishing the bb gun?
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Old October 4, 2005, 01:35 PM   #20
spacemanspiff
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the blotter didnt say, nor did it indicate if the dude was arrested.

this is on a street corner where homeless drunks stand with signs asking for money.
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Old October 4, 2005, 02:13 PM   #21
sm
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Spiffy,Spiffy,Spiffy...

Understand this is from yours truly whom does not own a pair of cargo pants, no camo gear, never done a ninja roll ( I fall real good tho') and been known to take deer and doves wearing a blue sport coat, oxford shirt, tie, kahkis, cordovan penny loafers...

It is the intent of the person holding a tool - not the tool itself.

Be it a gun, a match, or a putter...

I can pull a RoadRunner [ *beep beep*] like I did recently. In this case the gun was in fact pointed at me, so I surmised rather quickly he was not just brandishing.

I can also NOT get out of sorts when the customer's coat gets caught in the wind, the soccer mom is 'trying' to get junior in or out of the blasted car seat and soccer player kid pulls mom's cover garment back to get money, the ladies purse is knocked over on the counter and her purse gun is viewed...and I know the sound of "whack" of a gun butt hitting a wooden bench seat in the store when the sales rep takes a seat.

I have even been happy to see UC LEO brandish theirs ( lady or male) in the store when something was up. Me...I was behind the one way glass with the shotgun on the phone asking for more Calvary to hurry up...I was giving play by play and being a good observer , reporter and announcer.
Kinda hugging the wall and where the wall had been enforced with stuff to hopefully stop incoming lead...

I'd just as soon everyone carried all the time, no permission papers. I prefer concealed, element of surprise, still does not bother me one whit if folks want to open carry.

To me, level the playing field if you please. Besides the BGs don't have permits, don't care whom sees or does not them carrying. I figure the more BGs suspect law-abiding are carrying...less chance of the BGs doing harm to folks. If not, well there is natural order of stuff that happens - maybe less good folks and more bad folks if the field is leveled.

Like I said - intent of the user with whatever tool is in hand.

I used to use a putter and putt golf balls in the front of the store. It was a putter. Now if'n per chance that punk had decided to pull a stupid that day, I could have used that putter for something else now couldn't I? My intent would have been different.

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