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Old December 10, 1999, 10:49 PM   #1
Matt
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Local gunshop has a post ban AR15 with a threaded barrel and a muzzle break installed. I commented that I thought it had to be permanently installed (welded, etc...). And Jim remarked "it was legal because it had non-standard threads". Not wanting to open my mouth and prove how ignorant I was, I left it at that. Can someone please explain standard and non-standard threads and how this can be legal? If they're making muzzle breaks in non-standard threads, what about the evil flash surpressor? What is standard threads and what is non-standard? Is the non-standard the new standard? Hope these questions aren't too dumb. Thanks, Matt.
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Old December 11, 1999, 11:11 PM   #2
George Stringer
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Matt, the only thing I can tell you for sure (straight from an BATF inspector) is that if the rifle was manufactured with a flash suppressor, it can be replaced with a new one if damaged etc. Other than that I've always been under the impression that they had to be permanently attached. And threaded (I have no idea what non-standard thread is supposed to mean)is not permanent. I will be the first to admit that since these kind of rifles are not really part of my business that I don't keep up with the laws. If I have a question I contact my BATF inspector. George
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Old December 12, 1999, 12:32 AM   #3
WalterGAII
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Actually, it's a "brake". I have a Smith brake installed on my post-ban Bush Shorty carbine. It's installed with Loctite 640 and four set screws. JP also makes an excellent post-ban brake, but it's funny-looking.

It's illegal to have anything installed on a threaded barrel on a post-ban rifle, unless whatever is installed on the threads is welded on.

Like George says, safest thing is to consult with BATF.

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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!


[This message has been edited by WalterGAII (edited December 12, 1999).]
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Old December 12, 1999, 07:18 PM   #4
James K
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I have heard that one. The argument is that if the attachment can't be replaced by a standard (GI spec) attachment, it is OK, just as if it were welded on. FYI, BATF says no - threaded is threaded, whether the threads are metric, English, Whitworth, square, or anything else.

I suggest avoiding the guy's products and the guy himself.

Jim
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Old December 13, 1999, 06:23 PM   #5
Kframe
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If you can buy a tap or die set for the threads, it's "standard". For those of you that own a lathe you can cut your own threads (but tapping the brake is going to be a problem) that are completely oddball in dimensions. And, if at some point in the future someone comes out with a commercial die set that by a fluke matches the threads you cut, then you are in violation.
So, play it safe and have the brake pinned, welded or fixed with set screws.
-Kframe
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Old December 17, 1999, 01:15 PM   #6
dZ
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JP engineering web page says this: http://jpar15.com/barrels.htm
The 1x9 version is threaded 5/8x28 and contoured .875 from the gas block to muzzle for a nearly seamless match to the stainless bull barrel version of the JP recoil eliminator. (This is a post ban legal thread pattern which does not require the brake to be permanently attached on a post ban gun.) If you prefer nothing at the muzzle, thread protectors are available or you may opt for a plain crowned muzzle or Intra-Comp. Contour making this barrel compatible with any other barrel nut. No modifications needed.
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Old December 17, 1999, 01:16 PM   #7
dZ
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but how long would it take for a person to appear at your trial with a flash suppressor threaded to your unique pattern?

dZ
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Old December 17, 1999, 01:59 PM   #8
James K
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Nothing against that particular company, but accepting an opinion on legality from someone who is trying to sell a product is not perhaps the wisest course. This is an instance where the seller will not get in trouble, the owner might.

Jim
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Old December 17, 1999, 03:06 PM   #9
zot
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to install a flash suppressor on a post-ban
rifle is against BATF guidelines, but a
muzzle comp is legal, I asked BATF about
slant cut AK-47 muzzle comps, their legal on
a post ban as long as its welded , I think welding is only for threaded barrels, but I
see many AK-74 type muzzle brakes that are only pinned on or set screws, Bushmaster puts
out a AR rifle with the 74 brake, its not considered a flash suppressor, what really
makes me wonder is all the pistol grip AKs
that are on the market, alot will accept Hi-capacity mags, seems the laws changed and I missed it?
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Old December 18, 1999, 12:47 PM   #10
artech
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Nothing's changed, what you are seeing is civil disobediance stemming from the fact that nobody's enforcing the '94 gun ban.

Threaded muzzles are still illegal, postban hi-caps are illegal, and detachable mags for certain SKS' are illegal. It's just that nobody cares right now.

If ATF ever decides that they need some good busts to justify more funding, all these guys better look out, because they are in violation of the law, and that's 10 long ones in the Federal pen.

Better them than me, is what I say. I comply with the ridiculous law, and I suggest everyone does. And if you do decide to do whatever you want reguardless of the law, one would hope that in this purely hypothetical situation one would have the good sense not to advertise one's actions on the web, know what I mean?

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Old December 18, 1999, 01:22 PM   #11
Matt
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Thank you all for your replies.Please understand,i am not planing to buy this weapon,just trying to learn.With so many rediculous laws,ithought this may be a leagel.With so many dumb laws,i will p
robably have more dumb questions!
thanks agin
Matt
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Old December 28, 1999, 09:40 AM   #12
zardoz
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Matt,
The standard thread for a pre-ban AR is 1/2-28 (I think, It's in the DPMS catalog and I don't have mine here now) Some AR barrels are now available with a differant thread pattern and size; these will not accept the dreaded A2 flash suppessor and grenade launcher that can be attached to it(although I don't think any one has actually seen one).
Companies are seelling these as being post-ban legal with a muzzle brake(not a flash suppressor)
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Old December 28, 1999, 11:05 AM   #13
Kernel
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This "non-standard thread pattern" loop-hole is the wackiest thing I've ever heard. I've read the law, it's written in mumbo-jumbo legal babble, but it says absolutely nothing about thread pitch, pattern, type, size, etc. I wonder if JP has anything in writing from the BAFT stating this is in compliance. Of course it's perfectly legal to make post ban barrels with threaded muzzles, that's always been legal. It's putting a brake on without permanently attaching it that gets you in trouble. You gotta give'em credit for coming up with a new angle, they must have a large pair. -- Kernel

[This message has been edited by Kernel (edited December 28, 1999).]
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