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Old July 24, 2005, 01:43 PM   #26
butch50
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generallobster: I can not begin to fathom what was in his mind to act that way. All I can say is that his actions were precisely what the police would expect a terrorist to do, and therefore they did exactly the right thing. His actions got him killed, innocent or not.

My sympathy is reserved for the individual man that pulled the trigger on him. Can you imagine how he feels? Even knowing he did the right thing given the circumstances he is still going to be haunted for the rest of his life by those few seconds.....and all of those inevitable questions that start with "What if...."
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:52 PM   #27
generallobster
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I understand and also sympathize for how the officer who shot him must feel now with hind-sight and all. I'm not a cop, but might have also pulled the trigger in his shoes, and I say that even without knowing exactly what happened. But the fact is being on edge because of the circumstances doesn't make one unresponsible for one's actions. This is also london--where people are not used to seeing guns at all--not even on the duty belt of police officers. If a guy in plain cloths draws a gun on me, I might flee--especially if the terroist attacks were fresh on my mind and I was scared of being a victim. I don't know what he was thinking, and I agree that running from cops is dumb, but I'm just trying to look at if from a different perspective.
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:55 PM   #28
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What basically happened is you had a brazilian who saw five guys in plain clothes shouting at him loud and fast, probrobly panicked, since usually when that happens its some BNP arseholes or other gangs who like to beat the crap out of immigrants. They then jumped him, put him to the ground and shot him 5 times in the back of the head. It was just a summary execution. The police have apologised due to it and its being investigated.

Its nothing to cheer at, be joyful at. An innocent man is now dead because of a bunch of misunderstandings. All it does is cause concern about the way the police act and you knew it was going to happen as soon as the first incident. Generally police officers in Britain have a hardtime getting away with such actions.
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Old July 24, 2005, 02:02 PM   #29
butch50
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We may never know what was in that man's head to run that way. But, given a full investigation we will know what was in the police officer's minds. Time will tell us that.
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‘‘Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.’’ ~ Mahatma Ghandi, "Gandhi, An Autobiography", page 446

‘‘The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.’’ ~ Patrick Henry
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Old July 24, 2005, 05:38 PM   #30
Whitefalls
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Not sure how saying "good game brits" in reference to saying the brits handled the situation properly, especially before I even knew they had said he was innocent after all, is a racial slur and cheering about an innocent dying... but whatever. It's hard for this subhuman to figure these things out.
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Old July 25, 2005, 07:53 PM   #31
SpectreBlofeld
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Men in plain clothes with guns.

I would've run too. Call me 'abdul.'

It is 98 degrees where I am right now, and as I write this, it is 59 degrees in London. If I was an outsider in London, I might've been wearing a jacket too.
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Old July 26, 2005, 04:46 AM   #32
mete
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You have to read all the information. He was shot 7 times not 5 and some of the officers were in uniform . He also spoke english well so it wasn't a problem of language. I wonder if more info will come out.Darwin award.
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Old July 26, 2005, 02:52 PM   #33
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Circumstances being what they were in London this sounds like a tragic misunderstanding. It is also understandable that the authorities would act this way at the scene (which makes it even more frightening).

Has anyone considered that de Menezes was running from what he may have feared was a bomb on the bus he just exited?

Think of working in an area where you depend on mass transit (bus and subway) and you've been one of the lucky ones that weren't anywhere near any of the bombing/attempted bombing sites over the past 2 weeks. People suddenly start yelling. Confusion breaks out. All you (and dozens of others) want to do is get away from what you fear may be yet more bombs. The problem is that the LE authorities think you're the bomber and you have no idea that they're after you because they don't call you by name.

It's a tragic set of circumstances that lead to the death of someone that was just going to and from work.
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Old July 28, 2005, 02:20 PM   #34
Limeyfellow
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Well it turns out he wasn't wearing a bulky jacket at all, nor did he jump the ticket barrier and such. He just panicked some when all these armed police turned to him pointing their guns, which is quite understandable since that is the tactics of deathsquads used in Brasil for decades that they learned at the school of the americas. The case gets weirder and weirder...
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