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Old July 22, 2005, 03:31 PM   #1
Para Bellum
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EFMJ: .45 beats 9x19mm regarding energy by 36%, how about penetration/expansion?

I found something out that makes me think about changing from 9x19mm to .45. I believe the EFMJ bullet design to be the best we can get (at least where HPs are illegal).

What stunned me is the follwowing data from Federal:

9x19mm+P 124gr EFMJ: 1120ft/sec; 345ft/lbs (467 Joule), (4" barrel)
.40 165gr EFMJ: 1050ft/sec; 405ft/lbs, (549 joule), 4" barrel
.45+P 200gr EFMJ: 1030ft/sec; 470ft/lbs (637 joule), 5" barrel

in other words: with this particular bullet type the .45 offers 36% more energy than the 9x19mm.

Does anyone know how the penetration and expansion data of these EMFJ-loads compare?
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Old July 22, 2005, 03:42 PM   #2
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Old July 22, 2005, 04:25 PM   #3
shield20
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Para,

This is a very old article re: efmj - looking for newer stuff.

http://www.ammoman.com/40_EP_DESC.htm

Penetration looks OK for the 9mm 124 & the .45 (maybe a bit light for gelatin) - but the .45 production ammo is 165gr so that will be different.

As to .45 vs. 9mm, the energy on its own won't/doesn't have as big as impact - in this case the overall dimensions of the expanded rounds will contribute more to potential target incapacitation. Penetration will probably be around the same by design, so a bigger hole will be the advantage. Weigh that against the differences in the weapon platforms - the capacity, size, etc., and shootability to help make up your mind.

ps I like the .45 better then the 9mm

pss found this on another site from Jan '05: re: ammolab "In testing it does not expand reliably and when it does it expands from the middle of the bullet radially, the bullet then remains an increased diameter fmj bullet, it is an alternative to standard fmj but it is in no way comparable to a good jhp bullet."
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Old July 22, 2005, 05:14 PM   #4
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wetpacks, drugged attackers and the search for the right weapon

I'll try shooting 200gr .45s for handling etc and I'll do wetpack tests of the .45 EFMJ and keep you posted. I did test the EFMJ 9x19mm 124gr in a wetpack: http://www.raoulwagner.com/9mm.htm

I still like my package (Glock 19, 124gr 9x19mm EFMJ). Unfortunately we are facing a real threat. We had an attack of a drugged 28year old manaic who stabbed a business-partner of mine several times in the head until the knife broke. Now he's in a mental institution. But one day he will be released and might come back. So I am actually and really looking for a weapon to stop a young strong and drugged attacker. 12ga?. Sure, but it shloud be a weapon which one can carry concealed unter a suit's jacket...
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Old July 22, 2005, 07:32 PM   #5
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You my friend have the classic CCW decision to make.

The extra rounds of the Glock 9mm are definetly an advantage. While I do not think some pyscho is going to stand there and let you utilize all those extra rounds, more is always better. I myself prefer the extra mass and diameter of the .45 round, along with the postive aspects of a ltweight Commander, esp. trigger, grip, size and weight - to me it is worth giving up a few rounds that I make up for in extra mag(s).

I think you could do alot worse then that Glock. It is a tough choice because of what is at stake, but you should be fine as long as you stick to quality weapons and quality ammo - it is actually hard to go wrong with a good 9, .40 or .45. (as long as you practice!).

Keep hunting for more info on that EFMJ - hopefully somebody will come up with some good numbers/tests you can compare to other top ammo.
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Old July 23, 2005, 07:43 AM   #6
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.45 EFMJ penetration/expansion data still wanted

I still couldn't find penetration/expansion data of the EFMJ in .45 .... strange, isn't it?
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Old July 23, 2005, 08:27 AM   #7
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I sure wish they'd come out with a 230g .45 acp load. EFMJ designer Tom Burzcynski (I know I'm misspelling it) said a couple or three years ago right here that he was working on it. At that time they only had 165g, IIRC.
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Old July 23, 2005, 08:59 AM   #8
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Do not count on 'energy' figures they are very misleading . For the .45 EFMJ - 9.5" penetration in gelatin and expansion to .747" .165gr bullet from a 5" barrel.
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Old July 23, 2005, 09:21 AM   #9
Para Bellum
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Hey Mete,

thanks, but where is that data from?

(I'd love to confirm, that the 9x19mm still performs better....)
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Old July 23, 2005, 01:58 PM   #10
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That's just not enough penetration for the .45. If you can get the 13/14" with the 9mm - stay with it.
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Old July 23, 2005, 03:52 PM   #11
Para Bellum
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that's what I thought. The 9x19mm seems to outperform the .45 in penetration. Expansion seems to be equal...
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