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Old January 20, 2000, 09:59 AM   #1
Keifer
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Join Date: January 13, 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 89
I'm building (very slowly due to shipping delays) a general purpose AR-15 rifle. It's primary functions will be:
1. Home defense
2. General plinking
3. Coyote hunting
I'm trying to decide on the proper optics. I'm considering the Bushnell holosight with a 1moa dot, a Trijicon ACOG Reflex with the 12moa triangle, or a Trijicon ACOG 1.5x24. Does anyone have experience with any of these? I would like to keep the dot/reticle pattern as accurate as possible for 250 yard shots on those wily coyotes but don't want to sacrifice tactical speed for closer, more threatening targets. Are there other optics out there that I have overlooked?

Budgetary constraints make the addition of a second top end unfeasible at this time.
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Old January 21, 2000, 11:41 PM   #2
RECOIL
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Keifer,
I cannot beleive what my eyes are hearing as I don't see the Aimpoint Comp M/ML listed in your choice of sights/scopes. I would suggest that you give the Aimpoint's some consideration. I have a Comp M (M68) w/3moa dot and I am very pleased with it. Very fast, very accurate. I used my sight for a tactical carbine course last October and decided to never again be without one on my rifles. I use the GGG Comp ring on a ARMS A2 Plus handle mount setup that allows the use of the existing iron sights on my Dissipator. Got my setup from BOTACH who seems to have the best prices around. Here is a link that I hope will take you to the Aimpoint web site:
http://www.aimpointusa.com/aimpoint/.../web_store.cgi

Give a holler if I can answer any Aimpoint questions. Direct email if prefered.

Best Regards,
RECOIL
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Old January 22, 2000, 03:51 AM   #3
KaliSIG
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Keifer,

I've shot an M4 with the Bushnell Holosight, but wasn't too impressed with it. Don't get me wrong, it's well made but I'd go with RECOIL's suggestion and get an Aimpoint M/XD over the Holosight. One thing to consider about the Trijicon ACOG Reflex is that the tritium light source has a lifespan of 10 years. So basically, after 10 years, you have a useless scope. Although I don't have any personal experience with the ACOG 1.5x24, I have heard good things about it. Personally, I have a US Optics SN-4 on my rifle. It's not cheap but the glass/optics are second to none. It's 1-4x variable scope. At it's highest power, the reticle is a circle with a precision dot in the middle. At it's lowest power, the dot fades within the circle. It's an extremely robust scope and excellent for fast target acquistion. But if money is a consideration, RECOIL is right in suggesting the Aimpoint M/XD. I've shot a Springfield M1A Scout with the Aimpoint. It was very impressive, but you're limiting yourself because it is only a fixed 1x power scope. And if you plan on using it for coyote hunting, you may need a variable powered scope. Hope that helps.

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"No matter how deadly you may be, you must contain your art within the sphere of good motives against a background of peaceful intentions."
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Old January 22, 2000, 01:18 PM   #4
jfrancis
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I just bought the 2X Compact ACOG with the amber reticle. I have it mounted on a Colt AR15 LW (fixed upper) and it makes a handy little package. Very fast for close (5-25 yard) stuff - you just plant the whole triangle on the target. Even with the 2X you can shoot with both eyes open. For 50 yards and beyond, you use the apex of the triangle for precision. I like it a lot. One optic you might want to look at is the C-More/Colt. I have the 'tactical' model (the one with integral rear iron sight) on an M4 flat top upper and it works well out to 200 yards. For longer shots I prefer my ACOG 4x32. A lot of people love the Aimpoint - I had one and sold it.

John Francis
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Old January 22, 2000, 10:02 PM   #5
innocent bystander
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I'll agree with everyone when they say go with the Aimpoint. I love mine on my M4 with the ARMS mount and flip up rear sight. I also have an AR15A3 with an Elcan. The optics on that scope are very good. With the great optics and low recoil of the AR you can actually see the bullet's trace as it travels to targets beyond 300 yards. Very cool.
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Old January 23, 2000, 12:46 AM   #6
Jake 98c/11b
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KaliSIG the tritium lamp in the Trijicon sights is good for a MINIMUM of 10 years many Trijicon sights are still good after 12-15 years. After the lamp dies it is easy enough to send the unit back to Trijicon to have the lamp replaced, costs less than 10 years worth of batteries too. This is a durable item, not disposable. Another plus is that it will give you a lot more warning than the battery powered units and you won't have to remember to turn it on (or off) for use.
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Old January 23, 2000, 01:32 AM   #7
KaliSIG
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Thanks for the info Jake! Didn't mean to misinform anyone.

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"No matter how deadly you may be, you must contain your art within the sphere of good motives against a background of peaceful intentions."
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Old January 23, 2000, 03:54 PM   #8
Tango27
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I e-mailed the guys at either Gunsite or Thunder Ranch with this exact question (at the time I was looking at the Aimpoint, C-more Colt Scout, or the Trijicon Reflex), and I was VERY surprised by their answer:

"Buy the Tasco PDP5."

After the shock wore off, I read their reasoning:

It's FAR less expensive and does the exact same thing. It also has variable MOA dots (you can dial a 4 MOA dot for long distance/precision work, or a big 12 MOA dot for speed/close-in work). It's durable, has a big 44mm objective (no peering through a tiny 21-33mm objective), and is relatively lightweight.

It made sense to me. You can find them in the $150 range, though CDNN has them on sale for $90 (1-800-588-9500) if there are any left. It should mount right on the flattop, or on the front of the California Competition-Works dual-level mount.

Tango
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Old January 25, 2000, 10:18 AM   #9
Keifer
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Thanks for all the info and suggestions. The reason I didn't consider the Aimpoint or a Tasco is that I think the 3moa dot reticle would subtend the entire body of a coyote at 250 yards.

KaliSIG - How fast is the US Optics model up close? jfrancis says and I read at the Trijicon sight that, with the 1.5X or 2X you can still shoot with both eyes open. Can you do that with the US Optics model? Is there a websight I can go to look at one?

jfrancis - I'm not considering the Cmore for the same reason as the aimpoint - dot size. Do you have backup iron sights on the AR with the ACOG compact? I've already ordered and received a GGG MAD rear sight and was going to go with a GGG flip up front. Would this combo work with an ACOG Compact in place?

I'll be sure and post here once the rifle/optic is assembled and let everyone know how things work out.
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Old January 25, 2000, 07:52 PM   #10
KaliSIG
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Keifer,

The US Optics SN4 is EXTREMELY fast! And added benefit is that with the cirle dot configuration, you can actually use this circle to give you height or size measurement at any distance and at any power. By the way, the size of the reticle compared to the target, stays constant at all powers. So basically, you have a scope that can be used for fast target acquisition and as a ranging device. And yes, you can shoot with both eyes open. Like I said in the previous post.....the SN4 isn't cheap, but it's well worth it. Their website is www.usoptics.com. Hope that helps.

Adrian

------------------
"No matter how deadly you may be, you must contain your art within the sphere of good motives against a background of peaceful intentions."
G.M. Ramiro U. Estalilla
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Old January 25, 2000, 09:12 PM   #11
jfrancis
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Keifer,

With the ACOG compact mounted on the carry handle I can still use the iron sights if necessary. However, as I expect the reticle to glow for at least the next 10 years, I'm not too concerned about that.

As far as the dot size on the C-More is concerned, I personally find it easier to pick up than the Aimpoint. I did have the first generation Aimpoint though - I'm told the new model has a brighter dot. By turning up the intensity on the C-More it does appear bigger, although this is mainly due to fringing.

I do not think the ACOG compact would work with the GG&G flip up rear sight on a flat top because you would have to look thru the scope to see the front sight. This would be distorted by the magnification. It works on the carry handle because the mount has an open channel to look through (you are using the iron sights by looking under the scope). This is not ideal because your cheek weld will not be the same. (Note that the C-More on the flat top overcomes this objection).

John Francis
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Old January 27, 2000, 06:42 AM   #12
nyeti
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Used em all. My shooting partner just got the new Reflex with the triangle. We are so impressed that we are buying them for our entire SWAT team (whole triangle up close, just use the tip for distance). I love the big ACOGs for carry handle mount. For a flat-top, the US Optics scopes are the best thing out there for quality and clarity. Sometimes they are hard to get and they are pricey, but they are the bomb.
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Old January 28, 2000, 11:59 AM   #13
Keifer
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I went to the US Optics sight and I was impressed. Unfortunately my entire budget for the rifle is only slightly higher than the price of the scope ($1800). I was planning to drive to St. Louis before I bought so I could check out the Trijicon models at Shooting Systems in Fenton MO. Does anyone know of someone within 5 hours of Peoria, IL that has a US Optics model I could look at?
I might be able to convince the missus of the necessity if I had an actual model to show her.
Thanks once again for all the info.
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Old February 5, 2000, 07:45 PM   #14
Keifer
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I just got the Cabela's 2000 Shooting catalog. It has a "Pine Ridge" (Cabela's own brand) Red Dot Sight that has four dial-in reticles, including a crosshair and a ten minute dot. The cost is $179.99. I think I'll give it a try. If it's not all I hope it is, I'll put it on my shotgun. That way, I'll at least be able to use the same optic for the choke barrel and slug barrel.
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