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Old July 18, 2005, 05:50 PM   #1
CabinJohn
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Point Shooting

Yesterday, after shooting for a couple of hours at the range, I loaded a five round clip to practice “instinctive point shooting”.

For point shooting practice, I have a 30” X 40” target covered with white paper and a 3” day-glow orange adhesive dot in the center as an aiming point. After each round of shooting, the sheet is taped up so that the next shooter can see where the new shots are hitting.

Two weeks ago on the 4th of July, while shooting with a couple of neighbors, I tried point shooting with my USP 45. Since I did not have a belt holster for the USP with me, I was shooting from “low ready”, coming up on target, firing one round and returning to low ready. After shooting five rounds, we (all three of us) went to the target to see the results… three holes in the target, but one of them was clearly three rounds wide, and they both said they watched the hole getting wider as I fired. I quit for the day, as anything else that I tried would have to be “downhill” from that!

Yesterday, I was shooting my CCW (S&W CS-45) from a holster draw (draw, fire and reholster). After shooting the first two rounds, I could only see one hole in the target, about an inch below the orange dot. I stopped and walked up to the target. The hole was significantly wider than one round of .45 ACP. I returned to the firing position (between 4 and 5 yards from the target) and fired round three – hitting 2” to the left of the dot. After firing the next two rounds, we went to the target to see the results – and here is where my quandary begins… there were still only two holes in the target!

Did I miss the last two rounds completely? My neighbor swears he saw paper ‘chaff’ flying behind the target with each shot. Could I have missed a 30” X 40” target completely from only 12 to 15 feet away? Maybe, but I really doubt it. Did I really put 4 rounds through one ragged hole - point shooting from a draw? I would like to think so, but find that somewhat incredible (as I had never tried point shooting until a couple of months ago).

Anyone else have a similar occurrence?
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Old July 18, 2005, 06:38 PM   #2
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Get a copy of Jim Gregg's "Method of Fire Control." In it, he lists 1,241 shooters who he has trained to become members of his "Hole-in-One Club" from February, 1991 to September, 2004. Five rounds, 15 feet, one hole. He claims 80% to 100% of students in any one class achieve this. Having talked to him and some of his students, I believe him.

http://www.JimGregg.net

I have taught point shooting for years, but his book taught me some stuff. I hope soon to take one of his classes.

Pops
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Old July 18, 2005, 07:43 PM   #3
Coltdriver
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I once read a book about point shooting by the fellow that taught the OSS in WWII.

He combined your instinctive reaction to a dangerous situation with a style of point shooting.

I have used it ever since. I don't use sights, I don't practice with sights.

I exclusively practice pointshooting.

It is amazing that one can become so good at this technique.

That you have discovered that you can do this is a pleasant surprise. I was surprised at how easy it is. You practice that style and you won't bother with sights again for anything except target shooting.
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Old July 18, 2005, 09:01 PM   #4
Wynterbourne
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I'll be honest, I can't really do anything but point shoot.

When I was younger, I grew up outside of the tiny little town of LaFayette, GA. We were country boys, and proud of it. We hunted, we fished, we swam in the creek, and ran through the woods.

For you cityfied individuals, the backwoods have snakes, wild dogs, cougars, and all kinds of nasty little varmints that might do you some harm. I still remember going fishing with my cousins, walking about 6 miles to the river, with my old Colt .22 on my hip. It was a gift on my fifth birthday.

Don't think this unusual. In the area that we lived in, I learned how to shoot before I learned how to ride a bike. Hell, I had 2 rifles and a pistol before I owned my first bike. We didn't just shoot for fun, I still remember hunting for food for my family, because my dad just hadn't been able to find work for the past six months.

Normally when we went out, we ended up catching a whole mess of snakes. You'd see one nearby, draw and shoot. There wasn't really aiming involved. you just pointed to where you wanted the bullet to go, and it went there.

When we started moving around, we quit shooting for a while. It had been about 6 years since I'd shot anything. I was in high school, doing my qualifications for JROTC. I couldn't hit that target to save my life. I shot out a couple of lights, got a bull on my neighbor's target, but -barely- got a passing score.

I got upset, picked up the semi-auto .22 pistol our Colonel had, and snapped off a quick ten rounds. I beat my rifle score, as easy as you please.

To this day, now that I've taken up shooting again, I have the hardest time aiming at the target. With an astigmatism, slight near-sightedness, I just can't hit what I'm aiming at. If I get exasperated, point, and fire off a quick 15, they're all on the target at 25 feet.

I'd -LIKE- to find a class that teaches it as a skill, because I just don't have the time to redevelope the skill myself.
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Old July 18, 2005, 09:59 PM   #5
tINY
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More accurate point shooting than the same pistol from a machine rest.....



-tINY

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Old July 19, 2005, 09:21 AM   #6
625
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I point-shoot all of my SD handguns.
Seems to make a LOT more sense.
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Old July 19, 2005, 10:26 AM   #7
Hard Ball
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I practice both point shooting and fast aimed fire because you cannot predict the situations you may encounter.
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Old July 19, 2005, 11:09 AM   #8
tanstaafl4y
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Point shooting is based on developing "muscle memory". Heres a quick exercise to try.

Stand up and place you hands by you side. Mentally pick out an object on the wall (desk, etc) 15 - 20 feet away. Close you eyes and point at the object with your finger (attempting to put the object "under your finger"). For most people they will find that they are only a few inches off.

Certain handguns a designed to be natural pointers...the geman Lugar and Ruger MK1/2 jump to mind, I'm sure there are others.

Now lets think about the mechanich of this...you finger has been a part of you body since birth and you have become accustumed to point at things with you finger. So because of you familiarity with you finger and the ability to "rember" spatial relations with the objects around you...you can point at stuff blindfolded. A firearm with a grib/barrel design that closely mimice the natural angles of youbody will closely replicate the ability to point at things blindfolded.

Now with enough practice and training you should be able to develope this ability with any firearm.
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Old July 19, 2005, 11:38 AM   #9
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http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174829
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Old July 19, 2005, 11:57 AM   #10
CarbineCaleb
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Quote:
More accurate point shooting than the same pistol from a machine rest.....
Heck yeah - that's not even a challenge! I point shoot over my shoulder blindfolded - can do a circumcision on a mosquito that way out to about 25 paces.
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Old July 19, 2005, 02:03 PM   #11
625
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Quote:
Certain handguns a designed to be natural pointers...the geman Lugar and Ruger MK1/2 jump to mind, I'm sure there are others
I've noticed this seems to have more to do with grip angle than anything.
If I used my CZ-52 on a BG, I would prolly blow his nuts off. One of the many reasons this gun is just a "fun" gun for me.
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Old July 19, 2005, 02:44 PM   #12
Glenn E. Meyer
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Glocktalk has a more than 600 entry thread on point shooting in the tactics forum. Think we will say anything new here. I think that this topic is beaten to death because there is no quality evidence for the comparative methods. Research techniques used in many other stress/danger situations could be used to actually parse this out. It's never been done.
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Old July 19, 2005, 04:07 PM   #13
Dre_sa
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ok gonna try make this a little more fresh...

y not post pics of your point shooting results?

ive got a nice grouping pic on my phone will upload it soon!
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