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Old December 11, 1999, 04:25 PM   #1
Hal
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Join Date: October 9, 1998
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Saturday morning we were on HSs' chat room discussing CAS. I am pretty close to being hooked. It looks like a great deal of fun. How about some sites to start off.

WARNING!!!!! I am going to bug you a lot about this! I have literally a thousand questions.

First question is about competition. Is there much of it beyond the informal type of "Bet I can hit that" " Dime says 'ya can't" that goes on? Competition isn't my thing at all.

2.) Can I use a Winchester Trapper as a rifle? I have a Trapper in .44Mag and .45LC(Merry Christmas from my wife to me!). If not I assume a Marlin Cowboy II in .357 Mag is OK. I have one of those also, but don't care for the .357 Blackhawk, I don't have it right now(Blackhawk .357), as I gave it to my son. I'm sure I could get it back by trading him a Smith Model 19 for it though. I do have a Blackhawk in .45LC that was my wife's, but she doesn't care for it, so I am free to use it
3.Do I need to use the same caliber in SA handgun and rifle?

4. Got the shotgun covered with a Stoeger SXS 12 Ga. Do I need to modify it at all? Nothing like smoothing the action or any work, what I mean is they mention ejectors being forbidden. I'm not much of a shotgunner, so I guess I am a bit confused by what is an ejector and what is an extractor. I think the Stoeger has extractors, but I'm not sure.

5 Clothing. How stickey are they about it? I've been looking at the clothing on the web for some ideas, and man is it expensive!

6 What is the infamous cart I hear about? I'm guessing it's a cart to haul all your stuff around, kind of like a horse without the exhaust.

TIA for any help.

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Old December 12, 1999, 11:45 AM   #2
fal308
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Hal,
The major organizing and sanctioning body for CAS shooting in the USA is Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) @ www.sassnet.com. The competitions that I have been involved in are all local or regional-type competitions. They are very laidback affairs (except for safety considerations). Basically a "run what you brung" type shoots. If you don't have the proper weapon, usually someone will be willing to loan you one (I usually bring along a spare SBH for this purpose). At my first match I didn't have a shotgun and someone on my possee (shooting group) let me borrow theirs during the match. If there's a match near you, go and watch first if you don't feel comfortable. That's what I did for my first firsthand exposure to CAS. The SASS site has a listing (not complete though) of club matches.

As per weapons, the SASS site has that pretty well covered but a summary is; handgun(s) must be single action revolver of a type designed in or before 1898. Examples would include Ruger Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, Vaqueros, Colt "Peacemakers", Uberti, Navy Arms etc. There are several categories; modern-adjustable sights, traditional-fixed sights, duelist-one handed, frontier-black powder. Also all handgun rounds must be lead bullets, no jacketed, copper plated etc rounds and maximum velocity of all handgun rounds is 1000 fps with a minimum caliber of .32 IIRC (Bill the moderator can confirm or correct me on all this). Rifle must be of a handgun caliber; .45 Colt, the .44s (Mag, Spec, Schofield, .44-40), the .38s (Colt, Spec, .38-55 etc), the .32s ( Spec, .32-40 etc), also some of the original calibers are legal that are not listed. The rifle and handgun do not have to be of the same caliber though it does simplify logistics (only carrying one caliber instead of two) though I've seen several shooters "gaming" with .32-30 rifles and .38 Vaqueros. {i]Shotgun[/i] can be single barrel, double barrel or repeater (with an external hammer). I personally use the Stoeger straight out of the box. The Stoeger is very popular. The only stipulation is that no ejectors are allowed. The extractor only pulls the hulls partway out of the action whereaas the ejector throws them completely out of the action. It's an A+B relationship; after the extractor graps the hull and pulls it partway out the ejector flings it out of the action. Only in CAS the ejector is not allowed, only the extractor is. Therefore when the shooter breaks open the action, they must manually pull the hull out. If using a repeater (i.e. pump-Win 97, Marlin 93; lever-Win 1887)it must have an external hammer and the shooter is not allowed to have more than two rounds loaded at any time so as to negate any advantage over double barrels. Then there are sometimes side matches. These can be derringer, pocket pistol, or long range rifle matches. Side matches are always optional and don't count towards the main match results (if you care about how you place). They are run basically the same as the main stages. The long rifle is basically a buffalo rifle type match though I have seen 1886 Winchesters (.45-70) and .30-30s(lead reloads). Though the .30-30 isn't legal in major matches we've never had much of a problem allowing them in local matches. Usually most shooters who shoot long range end up getting a "proper" buffalo rifle . Mine is a reworked Remington Rolling Block in .45-70.

As for the clothing, don't worry to much about it at local matches. We've had people show up in jeans or overalls, western-style shirts, tennis shoes and ballcaps for their first couple of matches. You can pick up a cowboy hat at Wal-Mart or flea markets for a few dollars or less. I've seen experienced competitors still shooting in work boots though you can get them on the inexpensive side also at a Mart or flea market. Though if you go to the National level matches (anyone can attend) you will be required to have appropriate dress. In national CAS competition levels there are prizes even for your outfit!! You could be the worst shooter on the line and still win a nice prize if you're lookin'good . I know what you're saying about the cost though if you look around you can find deals. I'm still looking for a pair of chaps where I don't have to take out a second mortgage. I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of net sites but am still looking around here locally.

You are correct about the cart. It is a big help. Carrying a shotgun, rifle, ammo etc gets to be a drag. I don't have one and use a range bag right now. Will probably build one eventually as nylon is frowned on at anthing above local competitions. Right now I use a removeable sling on one of my longarms and carry the other one laying across the top of the range bag between the carrying handles.

Keep the questions coming and me or someone more knowledgeable than I will answer. Good luck and don't worry about being complete before you start out. I've been shooting CAS for a couple of years and I still don't have some of my outfit.
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Old December 12, 1999, 01:58 PM   #3
Hal
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Thanks fal308,
I'lllook inot it a bit further and flesh out this reply. Lots of answers, but still a few more ???'s .

I'm having fun already and haven't fired a shot

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Old December 12, 1999, 11:11 PM   #4
Ned Roundtree
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You are very lucky to be in a state with so many CAS clubs. For simplicity it is usually best to keep lever action rifle and revolvers in same caliber. Very bad if you get them mixed up. Secondly, are you a reloader? If so then 45LC is no problem. If not then cost vs caliber selection may be an issue. A typical match will go through 90-100 rounds of pistol(45-50) and rifle(45-50) and 10-25 rounds of shotgun.Secondly many stage scenarios call for loading the rifle in advance ,then shooting at set targets. Having a rifle with ten in the magazine (minimum) is helpful.A few shoot carbines with 8 or 9 in mag, but most shoot rifles with a min of 10 in mag. Shotgun: On a Iga SxS, most cowboys would disconnect the xtractor and polish the back bore, just enough that when you turn the barrel up the shells fall out pretty fast. Don't worry about not having all the equipment. Just let them know when you sign up. My first year three of us shared the same shotgun. We used to laugh and call it the community shotgun. Have fun. See ya on the trail.

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Old December 12, 1999, 11:16 PM   #5
Ned Roundtree
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Where to start? Start by contacting a SASS club nearest you. Ask them the next time the shoot or practice to have you on the mailng list so you can be there. If you can't wait there are several video tapes out now on CAS.
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Old December 13, 1999, 05:52 AM   #6
Hal
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Ned,
Are you referring to Ohio as being the home of so many CAS clubs? I found this one http://www.alliancelink.com/users/frontier/ovv/ which is about 1 1/2 hour drive from home. Yes I do reload and have worked up a very good load for the .44. I just got the .45 Trapper, so I have to work on something for that ( a good thing). I'll keep checking, use this for referance, and beat you guys half to death with questions.

Y'all sure ere a friendly bunch a fellers

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[This message has been edited by Hal (edited December 13, 1999).]
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Old December 13, 1999, 02:41 PM   #7
Bill Mitchell
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Howdy Hal,

You've had most of your questions answered,but I'll jump in with a few clarifications.

Your Trappers are fine for CAS,though if you come across a stage that requires more than 9 shots to be fired,you'll need to load the difference from your ammo belt. And,yes,using the same caliber in your pistols and rifles is easier,though it's not required. Lots of shooters use gun carts to haul around their guns,ammo,water and to provide a place to sit down. Not required,but nice to have. These can be built for a minimum of expense.

For new shooters,the dress code isn't stressed. Just get boots and a cowboy hat when you can.

As far as competition goes,some folks are very competitive,but most folks are laid back and are just there to shoot and hang out with their pards. Just do what is the most fun for you,and don't sweat what the other folks are doing.

If you have anymore questions,fire away,and we'll be glad to help you out!

Bellicose Bill
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Old December 13, 1999, 05:43 PM   #8
Hal
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Thanks Bill,
I'm still a bit unclear about the Stoeger though. Is it Ok as is out of the box, or do I need to remove the extractors? I'm glad to hear about the Trapper. I like the Marlin, but the bigger holes the .44 and the .45 make are easier for me see.

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Old December 13, 1999, 06:37 PM   #9
Bill Mitchell
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Howdy Hal,

Your Stoeger with extractors is OK and perfectly legal. What's illegal are ejectors,like on skeet guns,that throw the shells completely clear of the barrels. Leave the extractors on. Stoegers are good,solid guns,though they can benifit from having an action job to make them easier to open and having the chambers honed to make the removal of empties easier.

As far as your Marlin vs your Winchester,the size of the hole it punches in paper targets is immaterial in CAS,since we shoot at steel targets. I shoot a Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt,and it's a pleasure to shoot. It's best to shoot whatever your most comfortable with,'cause there's a lot to think about once the shooting starts.

Bellicose Bill
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Old December 14, 1999, 03:53 AM   #10
Hal
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Thanks Bill,
That clears that up. Next question is about the classes of shooters. I'm guessing Traditional is the best starting place.

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Old December 14, 1999, 06:25 AM   #11
Ned Roundtree
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Well, if the rabbit hasn't hugged the hound, I'm glad to see ya back. Classes are really just a determination of the revolvers you use. They are determined by your revolver type and style. Traditional is if both your revolvers are fixed sights such as a Colt Peacemaker or Ruger Vaquero with the notch on the top strap acting as the fixed sight. Modern class is if one or both of your revolvers is adjustable sights such as the Ruger Blackhawk you were talking about earlier. You could even have one adjustable sight gun (modern) and one fixed sight gun (traditional) but in this case, even one adjustable sight gun puts you in MODERN class. Most people shoot two-handed, but many choose single handed, that would be called DUELIST CLASS (single-handed through the entire match). There are more CLASSES. But those are the big three. Don't want to throw too much at you at once.

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[This message has been edited by Ned Roundtree (edited December 14, 1999).]
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Old December 14, 1999, 06:42 PM   #12
Ned Roundtree
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Hal, I forgot to mention one of the very first things you need when you go to a match! Give up? Gotta have a cowboy name!!!

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Old December 16, 1999, 05:37 AM   #13
Hal
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Hal here.
Thanks for the claification on the classes. Actually, you guys aren't throwing too much at once. The SASS site gets a bit overwhelming to navigate, so I like to get the fine points here.
My wife doesn't care for the centerfire stuff, but likes her rimfires. I guess that means she would have to be in the side events right? I want to get her and my son and his family involved in it too. My son can handle just about anything, my wife and daughter in law are more at ease with the smaller stuff. By the way, shot the .45 Trapper. WOW! Love those big holes. Sorry to ramble, most of this is going to be thinking out loud.
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Old December 16, 1999, 07:33 AM   #14
Ned Roundtree
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I hear ya. My problem is I don't reload. So, now I have got me, the wife and her sister shooting. Shot 45LC by myself the first year. Had great fun. But as my wife and sis in law started shooting, I had to move to a more economical ammo. Plus, the girls liked the lower recoil of the .38. So it became an encouragement for them also. .38 special became the ammo of the pocket book and cowgirls. So three of us, shooting between two to five matches a month. That's a lot of lead.
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Old December 16, 1999, 10:40 AM   #15
Bill Mitchell
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Howdy Hal,

I think you will find that lightly loaded .38s will be be just as easy to shoot as any rimfire ammo. 3-D Ammo makes a load using 100 gr. wadcutters. Get a box and let the ladies shoot those and see what they think. Shoot Winchester Featherlite 12 gauge loads,and you'll see that these kick very little.

Bellicose Bill
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Old December 16, 1999, 07:44 PM   #16
Trigger Jerk
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SOME local clubs may have a seperate class for 22's. The club I helped start two years ago, just started a 22 class this past year. We were hoping to encourage youngsters and wives/girlfriends to shoot. It didn't get a big response. Most months no one even shoots in it, but we keep it available anyway. It doesn't cost anything, and our philosophy is that we want to encourage perople to participate rather than exclude them.

Here's a tip on costuming...If you just want to "fit in" while you are starting out, you might be able to find a lot of usable things at a thrift store. Black jeans are pretty basic, go with anything and can serve double duty, add a long sleve solid color shirt and to snaz it up a little, replace the plastic buttons for a few dollars (check the local fabric store as they should have a huge selection of metal and wood buttons that would look authentic), and remove the part of the collar that turns down. to the jeans, sew buttons on the inside of the waistband for suspenders. Buttons are preferable to rivets if the pants are going to do double duty (also worn for non CAS stuff). The rivets will dig into your side if you wear a belt without the suspenders. Find an old cowboy style hat and and old pair of boots and you're there. Change the look by adding a vest or bandana.

Then after you do this awhile and see several different outfits, you will get a good idea of what you want. There are lots of good places on the net to buy cowboy stuff.

I'm into it pretty heavy. I have collected about 15 shirts, 5 or 6 pants, 3 paris of boots, a dozen or so bandanas and even a wig that I occasionally wear in cold weather to get that long haired outlaw look.
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Old December 16, 1999, 10:28 PM   #17
Ned Roundtree
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You are well ahead of me. Three shirts, one pair of pants, one hat, one pair of boots, two bandanas. Next year I hope on getting a little better hat. Spent all my funds on guns.

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