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Old October 17, 1998, 04:33 PM   #1
Bill Mitchell
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Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Roswell,GA
Posts: 433
Howdy,

We had a situation in our monthly match that caused some debate,and I'd like to get some other opinions.

A shooter,on the first shot of a stage,had what appeared to be an accidental discharge. It struck the berm about two feet above the target and slightly to the left,and the RO stopped the shooter and declared a DQ. While the RO is the final authority on calling DQs,the shooter felt that since the AD was downrange and close to the target,he should be given the benefit of the doubt. I have seen similar shots just counted as misses,and DQs only given on shots that impact the ground close to the shooter or hit high on the berm.

If you're a CAS shooter,how would this situation be handled at your club? I'd also
like to hear from those who may not be shooting CAS yet,but have an opinion on this subject

Bellicose Bill
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Old October 18, 1998, 09:05 AM   #2
fal308
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Join Date: October 12, 1998
Location: Missouri
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An AD is an AD. All ADs should be DQd as it implies an unsafe condition and should not be tolerated. The shooter was probably drawing with their finger on the trigger on the upswing. Remember the old rule: never point at anything you aren't willing to shoot.
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Old October 18, 1998, 11:05 AM   #3
Bill Mitchell
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Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Roswell,GA
Posts: 433
Howdy,

I agree with what you've said,but what if it's not the first shot of a string,but the second or third. For example,a shooter
accidentally slip-hammers a round. The shooter knows it was technically an AD,but the RO only suspects an AD,due to the quickness of the shot. This can get quite sticky,in my book. I've even seen apparent AD's that hit the target.

Bellicose Bill
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Old October 19, 1998, 09:29 AM   #4
fal308
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Join Date: October 12, 1998
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I agree with you about the after first shot scenario. Any ethical shooter should declare an AD whenever one occurs. CAS is supposed to be fun. Unfortunately gamemasters will always be involved. I'm sure you've seen the type, win at any cost. That's why I like CAS. It's geared against the gamemaster type. I'm not even sure if using a sliphammer is legal. How many RO's are running your stages? Do you have one for watching the shooter and his/her weapon? In IPSC we had one for the shooter, one for the timer and one to keep score.Where I shoot CAS it is more relaxed. There is usually only one RO. The squads usually RO themselves so peer pressure helps quite a bit. If push comes to shove, the RO is the boss and what the RO says-goes. If the RO calls an AD that should be that.
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Old October 19, 1998, 10:18 AM   #5
Bill Mitchell
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Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Roswell,GA
Posts: 433
Howdy,

At our shoots,the guy holding the timer is the RO for our posse. We also have two folks counting misses and another writing down scores. The RO's job is to watch the shooter and make sure he is safe,and to help the shooter avoid procedurals. The RO is the boss,as far as DQs are concerned.

Bellicose Bill
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Old October 19, 1998, 01:12 PM   #6
Rich Lucibella
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Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,162
Bill-
My 2 cents worth. I don't believe in the term AD, unless it's referring to a weapon that fired without benefit of any human intervention. I prefer to use ND (Negligent Discharge), when a human is involved...more descriptive.

One of the responsibilities of firearms ownership is Safety (with a capital "S"). When an ND occurs in a match, even a matter of inches off, it's still an ND. Most of us have done it; that's why we have several rules for safe handling of firearms. Even if one is broken, the others should serve as redundant backup to keep us safe.

The disqualification is not extreme IMHO, given that it's only a competition. The lessons learned by that shooter, in his disappointment, may keep him out of a *real* ugly court battle some day, should he have occasion to use a firearms in defense of life.
I don't want to make too much of it; but I hope he didn't either.
Rich
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