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Old May 14, 2005, 03:32 PM   #26
XDoctor
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The same thing happened with some of my first reloads on .44mag. I found that the problem was with my press, I was using a cheap progressive that was not reliably measuring powder. The first light load and the bullet was lodged.

I had to use a small extension rod from a socket set and a hammer to get it out.

If you're using a Lee Pro 1000, throw it away or add your powder manually.
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Old May 20, 2005, 04:20 PM   #27
jeff6strings
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Thanks for all the replies. I cut the threaded end off of one of my cleaning rods, then drilled a hole in my bench just shy of the size of the piece of cleaning rod. I tapped the piece of cleaning rod into the hole and now I screw a wire cleaning brush into the hole so that it stands straight up. Just before I put the shell in the shell holder in the press I give the inside of the shell a cleaning with a turn or two on the wire brush. So far by doing this I have seen small pieces of the cleaning media fall out of the shells onto the bench. I have come to believe my problem was media clumping in the shells just as cheygriz said.

Thanks again,
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Old May 21, 2005, 01:56 PM   #28
G56
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When you size your brass the decapping rod should clear the flash holes, if you are decapping before cleaning you need to check each and every flash hole to make sure they are clear before you continue your loading process.
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Old May 21, 2005, 08:00 PM   #29
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What I believe occurred is your case was packed with a blockage of walnut. Your de-capping pin poked a hole through the center of the blockage, but left most of it intact. The powder went on top. When the primer ignited, most of the heat and flame was absorbed by the walnut blockage, so powder ignition was poor. The (relatively) low pressure evolution rate that resulted delayed the bullet launch. The delay allowed near static conditions to obtain, so the bullet was dislodged from the case by lower-than-normal pressure. As the rest of the powder started catching fire, the bullet movement had already increased the effective case capacity too far for pressure to build to normal levels. However, the low pressure was still adequate to push the bullet far enough fast enough for the reaction force to operate the gun. Unburned or burning powder probably ejected with the case, but because the low gas pressure was relieved at the ejection port rather than the muzzle, the shot still sounded fairly normal in loudness to the shooter's ear.

I think your walnut media has picked up moisture from the air. I had this happen and rifle cases cleaned with that media would pack up solid and have to be cleaned with an orange wood stick that my wife had for cleaning under her fingernails. (Don't anyone here dare tell her where her precious orange wood stick went - they're cheap enough; it's just the principle of the thing. Oh, alright. I admit it. I'm scared!)

Try throwing your walnut media it in a plastic ziplock bag with a good quantity of silica desiccant for a couple of weeks. Don't try to dry it in your kitchen oven as it will likely have lead residue from primers and shouldn't be allowed near food preparation equipment. Also, walnut has wood oil in it which will smoke off in an oven, so unless you have an oven you can dedicate to this and similarly unsanitary purposes, and have it somewhere your wife won't smell the smoke, don't use one.

Good luck. I like what Cheygriz said about tumbling with plain corncob media after the walnut. Many people do that to remove the walnut oil, anyway, fearing powder contamination and poor ignition. This may have played a roll in your ignition problem as well.

Keep your powder dry!

Nick
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Old May 21, 2005, 09:28 PM   #30
VonFatman
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Jeff,
I had a like experience happen to me a week or so back. I was changing over to .45 ACP and was incorrectly using my Dillon Powder Ck...I'd just installed it for the first time and was not doing it right. I somehow let a primed-but-uncharged round slip thru. During test firing (rapid fire no less!!) This uncharged round did EXACTLY what you describe. The primer actually had enough power to cycle the slide and clear the brass form the gun! (CZ-97B) The bullet was seated in the barrel JUST deep enough to keep the next round from going in to battery. We BOTH were extreemly lucky!! A little more "umph" and we'd not have liked the outcome!

I'm glad you were able to discuss this and type with all your fingers!
Keep reloading...we've both had a lesson that will stay with us for all our years.

Take it easy.
Bob
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Old May 21, 2005, 09:37 PM   #31
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I had the exact same experience as VonFatman with my CZ97B and some reloads off a progressive. Just a small pop, and the next round wouldn't chamber. Kinda scary when I realized there was a bullet stuck in there. Makes me a bit more paranoid when working with the progressive, but in reloading, you can't really be too paranoid, now can ya?
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Old May 22, 2005, 12:59 AM   #32
guntotin_fool
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I would say toss your media. how much is it. anyway?

I would also say that seeing as you had some form of caked debris which is showing signs of unburned powder. then you did infact obscure the flame travle from the primer the shielded powder. You are very lucky you did not bulge the barrel or worse, In fact you should strip the pistol and look down the barrel and see if you can see a ring in the reflections inside the barrel. My guess is that you did ring the barrel. If you did not, then you should go buy a lottery ticket tongiht because you are a lucky son of a gun.

it is possible to pack the media so tightly into the bottom the case that flame just does not reach the powder for ignition. When you dumped the powder charge on the media and then seated a bullet, The resulting pressure sealed up the primer hole and upon fireing only let the slightest amount of powder get ignitied.

I just looked up the cost of media and in ten pound container it runs about a 1.50 a pound, how much is your gun worth. ?
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Old May 22, 2005, 10:41 AM   #33
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Interesting primer stories. I think Jeff implicitly confirmed JohnKSa's inquiry that the round sounded normal. Also, Jeff said he is dispensing powder from a Pact automatic dispenser and loading one-at-a-time on a rock chucker. Pretty hard not to charge one at all this way. But other than that, it is a matching experience. Perhaps the powder started burning after the gun was heading into counterbattery under primer power, so it still created the loud report upon ejection? Would have been interesting to witness.

All the primer-only function descriptions are interesting in and of themselves. They suggest this isn't unusual, at least not for some guns. In another thread (now closed, due to temper control issues of the non-metalurgical sort) the claim was made that 10,000 psi was required to start a bullet moving. Not true, of course, since low pressure equilibrates toward static conditions and I think we've all seen bullets we could move by thumb in their cases.

I've never personally had a self-loader fire a primer-only cartridge, but did have it happen once in a revolver. The result was a bullet part way on the forcing cone that caused the cylinder to hang up. It was a jacketed bullet, and apprently the cylinder chambers were large enough to allow blow-by of the primer gas, so the gas got out through the barrel/cylinder gap before the bullet got all the way onto the rifling.

Jeff, if you are weighing charges, even though you aren't using a measure, still use a loading tray and funnel the charges into each primed case in the tray. Before setting bullets on them, shine a flashlight in and see that the powder levels all look the same to your naked eye. Not only is lack of charge immediately apparent when you do this, but you'll also spot double-charges or a charge sitting on top of a blockage.

Non-ammonia polishes are available as media charging and re-charging polish. Lyman, Midway, RCBS and others who sell case cleaning machines all have them as far as I know. I've used Dillon Rapid Polish 290. Also the Lyman and Midway products. Lyman pre-charged corn cob seems to work fastest, though the resulting shine on the metal isn't as good as the slower cleaning red polishes produce. The walnut is finer and does a little better on primer pockets if you de-cap first. Accuracy tests have tended to show clean primer pockets don't matter much, which is why the progressive loading machines ignore them.

Nick
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Old May 22, 2005, 11:07 AM   #34
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Are you sizing before or after cleaning.

I size after cleaning, yes it has broken a couple of primer pins but its worth that to finding out the hard way that you did.
I then inspect every round inside and out before starting the process.
I dont use a progressive loader so I use a 50 round block to hold casses when I fill them with powder I do all 50 at once. The advantage of this is I can set the block down and inspece every one again and see if there is a lack of powder or to much.
I know how dangerious this can be, I got hit with the charging handle from an AR15 several years ago, the numnuts standing beside me at the range loadded some 223 with pistol powder.
broke my nose and glasses.
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Old May 23, 2005, 02:58 AM   #35
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It sure sounds like your media caused your stuck bullet. The only thing I might add is you can get a threaded brass rod at most hardware stores. Works real good for getting bullets out of barrels. Just make sure it’s as close to bore diameter as possible.
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Old May 23, 2005, 10:35 AM   #36
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You can get plain 1/4" brass rod at the hardware, too. Veral Smith claims cold-rolled steel is too soft to damage a bore when you ram things in and out with it. I would lube it first, just to be sure, but you can get most fractional diameters at Lowe's and many hardware stores. Also, for brass and bronze (bushing stock) shop the machine tool and supply outfits (MSC, Enco, J&L). They are on-line.

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Old May 24, 2005, 02:45 PM   #37
Full Auto
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Stuck Bullet

I had this happen in an IPSC match while I was shooting by bosses Colt 45.
Fully tricked out race gun worth about $2500 in 1996.
Same as you, bullet went just far enough in to prevent next round from chambering. (Thank God).
I couldn't hear, but everyone was shouting NO...NO... while I was trying to chamber the next round.
Turned out to be NO POWDER ! Missed one when charging cases by hand.
Primer shot it a little way but it did not eject the case.
I don't see how yours ejected the case.
Even a few specks of powder would have shot the bullet out of the barrel, but It would not have the power to eject the case. "Verry Interresting"
If yours ejected the case, that bullet must be welded to the barrel.

Lessons Learned:
1) Purchased an auto powder measure that is activated by the case.
Only drops powder when a case is present.
2) Range Rods are just that! Brass rods around 1/2"dia and 9"-10" long or so
kept in shooting bag to knock out bullets if ever happens again. Knock
them out from front of barrel using a steel hammer to get the impact to
the bullet. Plastic doesn't work as well. It should not be stuck very tight.
3) Purchased electronic ears so I can hear warnings when the pressure is on.
4) Purchased my own Colt MkIV so I wouldn't take the chance of getting
fired for blowing up my bosses gun.

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Old May 25, 2005, 10:16 AM   #38
garbageman
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Had this happen with a revolver one time. Luckily the cylinder locked up due to the bulled being stuck in the cone. I blame it on no powder. I was shooting light loads w/ HBWC in a 2" S&W 10. After that incident, I look closer at the brass each time. I have a habit of checking each one while in the loading block and placing a bullet over them if they appear loaded with the proper amount of powder. If anyone of them appear suspicious they are dumped back on the scale for a check.

I use an RCBS powder measure to throw my loads. It never hurts to check a few rounds now and then for proper powder weight.

If the bullet stuck so close to the chamber, I would think the pressure build up of a primer only would have pushed the slide back enough to eject the brass.

But I am not an expert either.

The only thing I ever use in my media is alcohol. Keeps the dust down.
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Old May 28, 2005, 04:39 PM   #39
VonFatman
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garbageman,
"alcohol in the media to keep the dust down"
Please expound! I'd like to try this out.
How much do you put in?

Thanks

Bob
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Old May 30, 2005, 07:03 AM   #40
jeff6strings
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Thanks for all the replies.
So far I've been doing well by cleaning the shells with the brass wire brush that I installed on my bench. I've been throwing a used dryer sheet in my tumbler when cleaning as this seems to help with static cling of tumbling media, drying the media and media dust. Because we have a lot of laundry I put a new sheet in with each cleaning. Whoever does the laundry always puts the used sheets on my bench as I make sure I use the the used ones since new ones have fragrances and other gunk on them that I don't want in my cleaning media or brass.
Thanks again,
Jeff
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Old June 3, 2005, 07:33 AM   #41
garbageman
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Vonfatman,
Look here
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...13#post1586613
Paul B. has a recipe for using it.
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Old June 3, 2005, 09:53 AM   #42
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Thank you garbageman!

Bob
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